Posted by Nick on Sunday, September 22nd, 2024, filed under News. You can follow comment on this post through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a comment. Pinging is currently not allowed.
For decades no one has believed me that Ritchie plays a C minor (with an Eb as the third) in the chorus, everyone plays – wrongly – a C Major (with an E as the third), all chord diagrams show a C Major and I believe that even der liebe Gregster was always highly skeptical of my claim too. Well, now we have it straight from the minstrel’s mouth: C minor it is, always was and ever will be.
And that is part of the magic of the song, because Big Ian sings an E in the chorus, he thinks major, Ritchie thought minor. And the half-note dissonance between Ritchie’s Eb and Gillan’s E gives the chorus once again that special quality. I believe at the time only Jon noticed the “mistake”, but stuck with it because he found it sounded interesting. And prudently stayed neutral like Switzerland, eschewing both an E and an Eb in his own organ power chord in which he didn’t play any thirds at all (Jon didn’t like playing thirds on the organ as a matter of principle, he thought it made the Hammond sound ‘too sweet’.)
And Marc Bolan plays a minor and not a major chord at the beginning of the chorus of Get It On (Bang A Gong) too, it makes all the “T. Rex Sound” difference. In nearly fifty years of playing that song, I have never met a single guitarist get that right either, they all play it as major.
Evil Ritchie, long live the King! The joy of something different, Ritchie & Ian Paice together experimenting, ‘what haven’t we done yet” classic. Drummers eh, you just can’t live without them. Cheers.
Yourself & RB are wrong. Pick up your guitar & play the chords in the chorus. All this proves is how little RB actually knows about music…Some people can play fine, but have no idea of what they’re really doing.
qt.Jon Lord…”RB always had a maverick approach to chords”…This is a polite way of saying he has no idea.
Nb. RB almost always riffs in 4ths, with no 3rds in sight or in ears-drop. ‘Nuff said.
Play the tune, let your ears decide. I’ve said way-too-much on this silly matter already over the years, & I’m not going to repeat myself. I leave happily knowing that real musicians can here the truth lol !
Lieber Gregster, are you saying he DIDN’T play a C minor on the recording of the chorus or that he SHOULDN’T have played it (even though he had not yet heard Ian’s vocal melody to it?)?
A C Major chord sounds harmonic to the following G# Major/Ab Major chord of the chorus, no doubt, and Big Ian’s vocal line – consisting of E (smoke), Eb (on), C (the), Eb (waa…) + C (…ter) – fits perfectly to it as he then doesn’t sing anything outside of the scale (except for the then blue note minorish Eb) BUT it also then lacks the tension of the recording. Try playing a C Minor instead, yet still sing Big Ian’s C majorish vocal line 0f E, Eb and C over it, don’t you hear the difference and the effect it creates?
Two things:
– Why should Ritchie be to blame if he plays a C minor chord to Ian Paice’s drums when writing the song and only then Big Ian throws a curveball and starts the chorus on a note from the C Major scale? Your logic escapes me.
– Yes, Ritchie had a penchant for playing in fourths – SOTW, Burn, MOTSM, LLRnR, All Night Long, Spotlight Kid or Can’t Happen Here all employed fourths (Since You’ve Been Gone had thirds and was an exception from the rule), he said in an interview once that he took inspiration from Oscar Peterson for that after having seen him live
“it made the notes sound so big and nasty”. It became part of DP’s trademark sound.
But deducing “he had no idea” from that? In that case, Jon Lord had “no idea” either because he avoided thirds in his organ chords too, saying in an interview once “you have to be careful with thirds on an organ, otherwise it quickly sounds too sweet and like circus music”. Fact of the matter was that both Ritchie and Jon simply preferred that sometimes harsh fourth-augmented sound, nothing more. (In Blackmore’s Night, Ritchie plays thirds all the time, so much and so sweet I get toothaches from it!)
And if Ritchie had “no idea” of music theory then where does that leave Tommy Bolin who played entirely on feel and what he heard? You’re changing the standards you apply to someone’s playing faster than your strings, mein Lieber! 😂
I’ve been following this discussion for a long time without commenting, but thought I’d jump in here. Here’s the isolated guitar-track from the Machine Head sessions. At the chorus, Blackmore plays a C note, the fifth (G) and the octave C above. So he doesn’t define if it’s minor or major chord, there’s no third there. The vocal line starts off on the major third as we know, a minor chord behind the vocals would’ve ruined it 🙂
You’re right MK44, he basically plays a power chord arpeggio of root, fifth and octave (as he was wont to do, it was typical for him for a time), not defining it with a major or minor third. But in his mind – see the interview – he was thinking the C power chord as a minor while Gillan imagined it as a major and snuck in his E.
When I play a C minor and sing Gillan’s E to it, then It doesn’t sound ruined however, it sounds atmospheric with that little tension there. At the same time when playing a C Major and singing the E, it sounds banal and children’s music-like. So perhaps the magic was to let Ian ‘decide’ with his E (which he quickly lowered to an Eb with the second chorus note) that the chord “expected” to be minorish actually turned out majorish.
This reminds me of something Sheryl Crow once explained in an interview: She said that at the beginning of her career she had mainly written on guitar, but then started doing it on bass because “on bass you start out with just playing the root, there is no predetermination whether something is Major or minor and that gives me more freedom in developing vocal lines, you tend to do unexpected things then”.
first time round at 03:02, namely the ascending notes C D Eb (= minor!) to the C chord and G# A# C (= major) to the G# (or Ab) chord. That indicates to me that he “understood” the C chord to be a minor (as he does in the interview). (When he repeats the chorus he plays the power chord arpeggios from Machine Head btw.) But DC and Glenn have meanwhile changed the chorus vocal melody of SOTW from Gillan’s original E-Eb-C-Eb-C to something (it’s hard to catch for me as they harmonize and are not quite accurate doing it) like G-F-D-F-C. Which is why the SOTW chorus as sung by MK III and IV never sounded quite like Big Ian’s initial melody.
@3 You need to get over yourself. Ritchie has classical training and is globally recognized as one of the greatest guitarists of all time, having played with everybody and their brother since the 1950s. And here you are, more obscure than a most, pontificating that Ritchie knows nothing about music. Get a clue.
RB can play some guitar, but he knows sweet-FA about discussing it properly or its theory. That is no-bullshyte. Or perhaps he’s bullshyting everyone once again as one-of-his japes ? I don’t think so. Jon Lord indicates the truth.
He apparently had 1-year travelling on his bike for classical lessons, the rest was hangin’-out the front of Big Jim Sullivan’s house, a true master…But there’s so-much bollox that comes from RB mouth, who really knows what’s true ?…That’s the problem with habitual liars.
Anyone with trained ears will tell you what’s going-on in the tune SOTW, & I’ve done this many times before, but it seems a waste of time with people who aren’t musically inclined.
RB is only an average guitarist. His stage-craft on a good night is what made him a reputable entertainer. That’s about it !
Let’s also not forget that RB has also stolen the bulk of successful DP tunes from elsewhere by his own admission. And the admin here provided a link to a South American artistes tune, that more than approximates the SOTW riff…
There’s nothing to discuss really. RB was in the right-place at the right time, that simple.
There are countless guitarists with superior abilities, both before & after “his” time. Have you checked-out Steve Morse or Simon yet. Great examples of superior musicians.
– There seem to be only these extreme perceptions of either Ritchie being this supremely gifted innovator with impeccable technique and then there is Gregster’s BCPCTSHL (= Blackmore can’t play crap to save his life) theory, with little middle ground in between. Neither does Blackmore justice.
– SIGNIFICANCE: Like most artists, Ritchie needs to be seen in the context of his times. I believe his heyday was from 1970 to 1976, give or take a year. In the first half of the 70ies he was no doubt a force to be reckoned with. In the 60ies people like Clapton, Hendrix, Beck and Page were in a different league to him (and he resented that), but come the 70s Hendrix was dead, Clapton no longer had aspirations to be the fastest gun in town (but rather a singer-songwriter), Beck became stylistically erratic and spent more time repairing cars and/or having accidents with them than playing with bands, so that only Page really persevered with Led Zep. In that period Blackmore was a very significant rock guitarist figure – aided of course by Purple’s considerable commercial clout (which in turn benefited from his skills and charisma).
– INNOVATION & IDIOSYNCRASY: Blackmore is widely seen as a progenitor of darkish, neoclassical rock lead guitar. People like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani have stated as much. Now he might not have been the only one, but in the early 70ies he certainly stood out with that (Steve Morse: “No one plays like Ritchie.”). Michael Schenker and Uli Jon Roth were both at least a couple of years later (not a coincidence that they are both German, Ritchie’s guitar playing has a Teutonic quality to it, no wonder Germany fell in love with him and his bands). So was EvH (whose style owed more to Ritchie than, say, Jimmy Page or Jeff Beck). In the 80ies a whole new generation of axemen adapted Blackmore influences for their own style: Malmsteen, Lynch, Goldie, Campbell, Vinnie Moore, Rand Rhoads, Jake E. Lee … More likely than not, they were technically more advanced than him by then, but it is the privilege of youth to be better at certain things than the people before them – it’s called evolution.
That whole neoclassical guitar style influence if of course largely relegated to the realm of heavy rock and heavy metal – I don’t hear a lot of Ritchie in how The Edge or Jack White plays. It has become a niche (though still a commercially viable one), but Ritchie is one of the forefathers.
– TECHNIQUE: To loan a phrase from Rush, our beloved Brethren Gregster shows little ‘Grace Under Pressure’ when people disagree with his (not entirely unfounded!) views. Whenever that happens, the world is suddenly populated by cretins who know nothing about music theory, can’t play guitar, have no concept of what true improvisation is or lack the appropriate stereo system to pass judgement on anything. Wow – “going out in the world and winning friends”, Gregster should really write a handbook about it.
If Ritchie was technically so unremarkable, I wonder why the otherwise also gifted Tommy Bolin had such a hard time getting just one of his solos or instrumental parts right. Now I love Tommy as much as Gregster, but if I may quote Martin Birch from the Come Taste The Band sessions: “Tommy was nowhere near as technically accomplished as Ritchie, I noticed that immediately, he played entirely on feel, but was very good at that in the studio.” I also have my doubts whether Ritchie’s overt and for rock guitarists untypical use of his pinkie (something Gregster readily tends to dismiss as irrelevant, most classical guitar teachers and Paco de Lucia too would, however, disagree) was something he learned while riding his bike and NOT taking guitar lessons. Nor do his alleged limited abilities explain why he became Joe Meek’s go-to-studio-guitarist while still a teen. In the early 70ies, Ritchie had a lightning fast plectrum technique and was even already doing arpeggio sweeps. Carving out your neck to gain more control of your bending and vibrato doesn’t strike me as strictly amateurish either. Nor can I remember in 1971 (and for a long time after that) a precise, largely non-bluesy guitar solo with as fast triplets/quadruplets as on Highway Star that did not employ any hammer-ons (like Alvin Lee’s likewise lightning-fast intro to I’m Going Home).
Gregster’s assessment of Ritchie’s capabilities also rests somewhat ill at ease with the judgement of the latter’s contemporaries. Jimmy Page, a man whose music I zealously love as is well-documented here, is on record for saying that his own lead guitar soloing skills were no match for Ritchie’s. Brian May has lauded Ritchie’s abilities too and offers his difficult character and contrarian as well as seclusive nature as the true reasons why Blackmore is not as prominent in the pantheon of great rock guitarists as he perhaps deserves to be.
MUSICAL KNOWLEDGE: So Ritchie supposedly doesn’t know what he is doing half or even all the time. Hmm, interesting, given Don Airey’s comment about Ritchie not being a “natural” like Randy Rhoads or Michael Schenker, “because he overthinks what he does”. Gregster has just invented for us the clueless overthinker, make a note of it. 😁
Most people here will remember that I’m not the world’s greatest Blackmore’s Night fan, but does Ritchie’s playing there really support that he has no grasp of Western musical theory? Never mind how he from the late 60ies onwards would incorporate various scales – and traverse freely between them all over the neck during a single solo – in his soloing that were rare/unheard of in a pop/rock context at the time. Blackmore is no jazz player, granted. But go look for another guitar melody like the one in Pictures Of Home in 1971/72. If anything, his worked out solos in Highway Star and Burn evidence that he has a firm footing in Western music theory, firmer than perhaps in Mississippi Delta Blues.
*************
Ritchie was never “the world’s best rock guitarist” (nor did he profess to be) if there even is such a thing, but he was very nimble, stylish & had finesse as well as consistently ploughed his own furrow, sometimes to his detriment as he narrowed his style a bit too much (he was VERY aware of all these qualities of his – the motor of Deep Purple was no shrinking violet …). I fail to understand why in 2024 he should be elevated to more OR denigrated to less.
And claiming that Steve Morse and Simon McBride are “superior musicians” to Ritchie is just a bald statement of taste – not of fact.
@8……to suggest that Ritchie Blackmore had but merely average ability on the guitar is way off the mark, and frankly, laughable. He was superior in skill to most of his contemporaries – the only other one who came close, or who may have been slightly better, was Jeff Beck; who by the way had very little musical schooling himself.
And to suggest that somehow, only schooled, musically-educated musicians have the requisite knowledge and skill to be able to judge the merits of a guitarist, smacks of musical snobbery and elitism which is so often found in the jazz world and its fringes.
As for guitarists who followed in Blackmore’s footsteps, and there are legions of them, including Van Halen, Rhoads, Malmsteen, Vai, Satriani, and yes, even Steve Morse and Simon McBride et al; he was a key influence. Ritchie set the benchmark upon which those others excelled and expanded guitar virtuosity – he was the pioneer…the Godfather. Blackmore was way ahead of the pack in the late 60’s to late 70’s.
One does not have to like Blackmore the person to appreciate Blackmore the virtuoso guitarist.
One does not need to go to music school, nor learn musical theory, nor put in countless hours of practice, to be able to hear who is a superior guitarist and who isn’t. The ears do that….just like they did for Jeff Beck.
If one has the privilege of having musical training and can hear more than the average punter, wonderful….but that doesn’t make said scholar’s opinion any more valid than a regular music afficionado’s point of view. It simply offers a different perspective. And importantly, music education doesn’t give license to denigrate Blackmore the player nor those people who hold him in high regard.
Well may I say, Gregster… Ritchie sure knew how to create an image of a genius … the black clothes, the cat moves, the bad tempered appearence, lefty guitar upside down, evil eyed, never smiling, rarely speaking … all that stuff. And there may be guitarists that are better technically. But he is a master of improvisation. BTW: He never claimed to be a good writer, arranger, technicallly brillant or a great teamplayer. He said he just knew how to improvise on stage. And I have heard Jazz- and Blues-players say they didn’t like his music and his antics at all but he’d play a mean guitar. Or, as one would put it: He’s a socerer.
May I add that Brian May is on record saying several times that Ritchie Blackmore is the most underrated guitar player and does not get the praise he deserves. Mind you: He gets a lot of praise – so obviously he deserves even more. He sure does.
Oh, boy, does it matter? Are you really hassling about a halfnote about one of the greatest rock guitarists and the simplest tune? Bach with his sons and Wagner will stay in our culture for centuries. But that is a different league. Rock is what it is: half knowledge and full of hart and guts Imminent. Let us not get too schcolastic.
It’s been 31 friggin’ years since Ritchie took his pilgrim hat and waved good-bye to Purple one last time …
“Fly into the rising sun … Work permit torn, then I’m gone …”.
🎶 🎵
29 years since he scarecrowed us with his last semblance of a studio rock album. Much like communism, he ain’t coming back. You can have medieval class society galore though!
@8 Sure, that’s why Ritchie outsold all of them – by far- and has way more hits, etcetera. Go play with your crayons and let knowledgeable fans comment on the music.
The Hun @18: I didn’t mention the half-note dissonance to put Ritchie and Ian down, I actually like the ensuing result melodically and harmonically. If you know the rules, you’re allowed to break’em is what I always say. Ritchie would sometimes do unorthodox things in all his orthodoxy (like expecting heavy rock lead vocalists to have long hair) – I’ve always appreciated that. Defying convention is fine with me.
Uwe @19, Indeed Ritchie left the band eons ago but nevertheless forged an indelible stamp on Purple which remains to this day; hence the moniker of the webpage hereupon which we write, and numerous other examples (eg: the classic Mark II songs which remain within the concert setlists still, etc.).
Sure Ritchie is gone…..off to Sherwood Forest, plying his Merry Minstrel trade for the avid Rennies, and for those few keen porphorophiles still desperate to hear one last blast from Blacker’s Strat.
The point is that Blackmore was the key founder of Deep Purple, and the guitarist who took Purple to the stratosphere in the 70’s. He had a distinctive style all his own which was more sophisticated and technical than those of Hendrix, Page or Clapton. Maybe the world wasn’t ready for a Blackmore then or now….it seems the masses are still generally content to listen to the dulcet tones of minor pentatonic and blues scales & licks in guitar solos.
As you have rightly pointed out, the hordes of younger guitarists who followed Blackmore, were building on the trail blazed by His Blackness. Technical prowess and guitar virtuosity expanded in the 1980’s and certainly evolved past Blackmore’s own not insubstantial abilities, BUT, he must be given his due….he was the first, he was the pioneer.
Whatever one thinks of Ritchie’s personality and any character flaws he might have demonstrated through the years, one cannot ignore the man’s talent and genius.
Whether Ritchie is one’s cup of tea or not….whether Ritchie was a schooled musician or not……whether Ritchie remembered his solos note for note -NOT!! (and that’s certainly a good thing!)…….whether subsequent Purple guitarists were/are more technically gifted than he……Well, none of that really matters in the grand scheme of things. But Ritchie’s time in Deep Purple and in Rainbow definitely left us with some of the most viscerally exciting guitar playing ever performed.
Ritchie left his mark, and no other guitarist in Purple, no matter how good or original or unique, has left such an enduring legacy.
AND to QuelloCheHaRagione @20……the whole point of this Highway Star webpage forum is to discuss and debate the merits of Deep Purple music, its players, our opinions, etc.; in a respectful manner. There is nothing stupid here. All points are valid if presented respectfully. If one is not happy to read such points of view, one simply does not have to scroll through these comments, nor to post about them.
@20…Agreed, but what’s more compelling may be what one is laughing at….
@21…Yes, it appears to slip peoples minds at times, just how much stuff was stolen / borrowed in the early-daze…
@19…Indeed, & he has his own website too…( hint, hint )…
@18…Very true, yet some folks insist on not thinking things through for themselves, (which is only a lack-of-confidence in their own ability to determine some things such as music & its theory), & prefer to support false claims…
@17…It teaches us that RB is incredibly funny, but won’t honour a contact, & will walk-out-on-you when you may need him the most…Not a top-bloke…
Also, some folks have suggested that RB was in a league-of-his-own, & to me, that simply means they haven’t heard of people like Johnny Winter…A school-teacher gave me a live Johnny Winter album called “Capture Live” to listen to back in 1984-5 or so, & I thought “Wow, there are people out there that can play better than RB, I don’t believe it”…And since that time, I’ve discovered plenty of guitarists that have expanded their musicianship over their careers, unlike RB ( well, 15th century folk-music-aside perhaps )…
Anyhow, much more fruitful to listen to, & explore the panoramic & dynamic musical landscapes that Steve & Simon offer us, & let’s not forget about Don, who has without doubt given the keys in DP a complete & expanded rebirth with great success.
@ 16 – everyone followed Hendrix? Not likely, Rory Gallagher didn’t, even Steve Howe & also John McLaughlin. There are plenty more guitarists who didn’t join the masses of the worshippers Gregster. Are we talking rock, blues, jazz, classical, flamenco & country etc. Or is it just rock/blues per se with a touch of psychedelia etc. Hendrix was influential to some, an icon to many, but everyone? Cheers.
To the original topic: maybe Ritchie intended a C minor and Gillan wasn’t supposed to sing an E natural… But since the instruments didn’t play the third of the chord… It would have worked either way. And the E natural was probably the more dramatic choice for the vocal melody.
Or it could be that RB is mis-remembering what he originally intended, 50+ years ago.
Does it matter? Whatever the case, it’s beyond belief that he wouldn’t have known the difference between major and minor chords.
Regarding Ritchie’s ability: Uwe @13 – well said. Only thing I would disagree with is “his heyday was from 1970 to 1976, give or take a year”.
Pretty much from the moment Purple came out of the gate in 1968 he was laying down attention-grabbing solos like “Kentucky Woman” and “The Shield”.
And while much of his work on “Shades…’ was smothered by excessive wah-wah, even on that debut LP his “And The Address” solo was full of cool, unexpected note choices.
Also the band’s playing – not merely RB’s onstage antics – was supposedly a factor in their being dropped from the Cream tour after a few shows, for upstaging the headliners. From the only MKI live show released so far, we can hear that he was already a pretty fluid improviser.
And as late as the 1984-93 reunion era, his bombastic solos were sometimes the only signs of life in what was at times lacklustre material. He had a pretty good run!
Was his playing a little sloppy compared to many of the post-Eddie Van Halen shredders? Sure. Even by the mid-1970s he had been overtaken, chops-wise, by Ulrich Roth, Bill Nelson, Ollie Halsall etc… To say nothing of more fusion-y guys like Allan Holdsworth. But by the standards of rock guitarists who emerged in the 1960s, there’s no doubt his playing was among the most proficient.
And, as you pointed out, he excelled in areas other than raw technique. Aren’t creativity, phrasing and sheer musicality good enough reasons to listen to someone’s music? Otherwise why do people still enjoy listening to 50s hotshots such as Cliff Gallup, Scotty Moore, James Burton? Guys whose playing sounded a little quaint even by the time the players of the next decade such as Beck and Blackmore came along.
To denigrate Ritchie’s playing during his prime, now decades past, is akin to saying Roger Bannister wasn’t a great athlete because, since he broke the four-minute barrier back in 1954, other runners have run a mile faster.
PS – Speaking of guitarists who followed in RB’s footsteps, one who cites him as an influence but hasn’t been mentioned yet is “the small but perfectly formed Nik Kershaw”. Known mostly as an 80s pop star, he is also a superb songwriter whose – often tantalisingly brief – guitar breaks show flashes of his hard rock and prog background.
One point I can see in what Gregster writes is something that reflects on so many fans of any artists, RB included. Fans often credit their particular as “the best”, “no one can compare to him/her”, basically a can-do-no-wrong worshipping attitude.
Over the million or so years I’ve been a fan and also been involved in this site and other DP related forums, there are often a big bunch of people who claims RB was the best guitarist of all times. Also that if it wasn’t for him, none of what DP has created wouldn’t have happened. This is of course just as silly as the Swifties claiming Ms, Taylor is the best singer/guitarist/whatever. What is “the best” anyway when we are discussing music? And does these people really think everyone else in DP didn’t contribute at all to the band’s success? Again, silly.
And then, just as ridiculous, is that these people seem to think that questioning RB’s saintly status is a personal insult on themselves.
@26: True. It’s like when people claim various similar things about The Beatles. There are successful musicians who couldn’t care less about Hendrix or Beatles, or Elvis.
Sure, you can probably create some tenuous connection between any musicians if you windle far enough down inspirations and influences, but it’s too easy to say that people like Hendrix “started it all”.
Just bought a new turntable after many yrs.. long story but listening closely to the classic mk2 from my old vinyl collection there is a uniqueness to their overall sound .. esp on MIJ that just cant be replicated .. the whole really was a result of the talented parts united. Smoke might appear a simple song but pull it apart and it surprises at every turn!!!
I was a little disappointed that Blackmore didn’t put the myth of the Carlos Lyra tune to bed, one way or the other. I call that a myth because unless it is proven, it doesn’t exist. The alleged rip off or borrowed idea that is often mentioned. There is a very real chance that it never happened that way. Why hasn’t he ever mentioned that Maria Moita song. Does he even know about its existence. Or is he keeping quite about it for some other reason. His missus is online & internet savvy it appears. I would not be surprised that she has mentioned what she may have read here or in other places about the Smoke riff debate. Anyway at present I go for the former, it just happens to be one of those similar musical coincidences, which there are hundreds & hundreds of in music of any genre, criss crossing the realms of composition & improvisation. Cheers.
@26…It’s just simple to say that without Jimi & his influence, DP, LZ & BS likely would not have sounded the way they did, or found the success that they did, & that includes Cream also, simply ask Eric his thoughts.
I’m not a massive Hendrix fan to be quite honest, but it would bevery foolish to ignore the impact he had. He was the most important “game changer” in R&R & popular music that’s ever been. Anyone of note in that time-frame of 1967-70 will tell you the same. Hard to brush things like that away. The musical books I have from that time-frame all speak about Jimi, everyone else can fight for 2nd-place.
Walk down any street in the world, & ask any young person “Do you know of Jimi Hemdrix”?…And you’ll likely find that they’ll say something like “Yeah, I’ve heard of him”…Ask the same thing about RB, & the reply would likely be “Who” ?…
@30…Generally, ( & sadly ) a persons success is gauged by the amount of chart-successes & income generated. Or if you rather, money talks, bullshyte walks.
For myself, I follow a different quality, & if a band or musician is delivering the goods to keep my ears satisfied with their expanding hunger, they get my approval. It’s important that the music doesn’t go stale, & that I celebrate everyone that’s made an impression to my own musical vocabulary that I identify with.
That said, imo, RB’s contributions went stale a long time ago to my ears, & that’s why I say I’m glad he left DP, & went on to pursue his own musical needs. DP have changed so much since he left, & they remain a happy, dynamic, & important musical force.
Long live DP
I always leave my posts with the wanting of world peace, that’s why I say it. But if you feel I’ve stolen this from your-person lol, I’ll use something else, no worries !
@29 Svante….It’s a given that people would gravitate to this particular Deep Purple-based site to write about their own favourite guitarist, whether that be Blackmore or Bolin or Morse or some other musician. I believe that is why this forum exists and thrives.
Whether statements made to the effect that this or that or some other guitarist or musician is “the best” really becomes more a reflection of the personal preference and passion of the fan concerned. In my view, there’s nothing wrong nor silly about that – this is a fan-based page wherein people should be free to express such opinions, provided it’s done respectfully.
Any fan-based site devoted to Zeppelin will have its adherents claiming that Page was the greatest of all time. Any Black Sabbath-based site will have its Ozzy versus Dio camps. Other sites and their posters will claim Hendrix was the greatest guitarist ever. Other pages will have their own bests and darlings. That is simply the nature of fandom at large.
And here in PurpleLand, it’s no different……with the plethora of musicians who have come and gone through the band, there is even more on display for us fans to talk about, lots to debate about who is/ was the best, the favourite, the most remarkable, etc, etc. Most of it pleasant and rewarding, albeit sometimes with a touch of silliness, but hopefully with a minimum of condescension.
So, now back to the original point of the video presented by Mrs. Blackmore here. Old Ritchie is reminicising about how he constructed the riff of Smoke, and some of the chords he played. Somehow the discussion here morphed into a debate of minors, majors, thirds and fourths. That is all well and good.
Where it became contentious for some of the correspondents here, was the suggestion that Ritchie doesn’t know musical theory, was merely an average guitar player, was simply lucky to have been at the right place right time, etc, etc. And further, there was an inference that some of us here who are not musically “educated”, hold opinions of less merit on the matter. Such statements could be deemed provacative, and are sure to elicit strong responses.
I mean really…..here we are on a Deep Purple fan forum wherein the original guitarist is being slammed. Should one expect anything less of the fan base here? Of course there will be a battery of passionate retorts to such statements.
I would respectfully disagree re Hendrix not being a pivotal figure in the history of electric rock guitar – and I’m not even a Hendrix fan, I just appreciate him and recognize his importance. But I’m sure that no other guitar deity who saw him in the second half of the 60ies came away unimpressed from that experience, irrespective whether this led to an attempt to then emulate all or parts of his style.
Blackmore once said about Hendrix that there was nothing Hendrix did that could technically not be replicated, but that the whole package was utterly mesmerizing: Hendrix’ hair, looks, flamboyant dress sense, erotic relationship to his guitar, on and off stage demeanor, voice, choice of guitar and amp brands, sounds, freedom and wild abandon in playing. Beck (“He went straight between the eyes!”, a phrase Ritchie heard from Beck when describing Hendrix and then loaned it for the title of a Rainbow album), Clapton (“One of us needs to get hair like him.”to his Cream colleagues) and Page have said much the same. And I can’t believe that a young Rory – another great guitar player – did not als take in what Hendrix did as did Johnny Winter by the way (who is in turn rated by Blackmore as his favorite Blues player, ahead of SRV, Blackmore thought Winter criminally underrated).
I think the greatest debt Ritchie owes to Hendrix lies not in copping a few licks and chords or rewriting Little Wing as Catch The Rainbow, not even in the Strat & Marshall image (Blackmore played neither before Hendrix’ arrival on the London scene), but in a sense of performance drama inspired by Jimi. Take Hendrix out of the equation and that ABC camera at CalJam in 1974 would have remained unscathed and no Marshall would have exploded.
Personally, I actually think that the little guy from Minneapolis was the guitarist closest to Hendrix IN SPIRIT. That transcends WHAT you play, rather having a whole lot to do with HOW you play it. Watch here at 03:28 and tell me I’m wrong …
“Ritchie left his mark, and no other guitarist in Purple, no matter how good or original or unique, has left such an enduring legacy.”
No contest, Honorable DeeperPürps, but he also had a more or less blank canvas to work from in 1968/69 – it was a time of musical upheaval and innovation. In contrast, Bolin, Satriani, Morse and McBride all joined a well-established dinosaur of a band where the legacy musicians and the market already had certain expectations. They only had limited room to reinvent the band, and especially with the latter three the age of the lead guitarero-dominated arena rock band had already passed. No one gives a hoot about the guitar solos in U2, Coldplay or Taylor Swift songs, ’tis true.
We don’t know how Purple would have turned out had Jeff Beck or Jimmy Page answered the call in 1968, but I think both would have been at least good for one or two remarkable albums (ignoring for a minute how both Beck and Page would have likely not preferred a line-up with as strong and prominent a keyboarder/organist as Jon), if not built the enduring legacy Ritchie did. He was made for DP and DP were made for him.
But at the same: Had Ritchie not left in 1975 and again in 1993, a scenario where DP Mk III would have successfully continued into the 80ies and/or a Ritchie-fronted Purple would have been playing the rock circuit for the last 30 years can be definitely ruled out as an even remotely realistic perspective. Ritchie’s departures were inevitable. And if you ask me, then Blackmore’s Night, the band he has played longest with and with the most consistent line-ups too, can hardly be seen as sound innovators and masters of reinvention. When did you last hear a Blackmore’s Night number that surprised you? For the last 40 years or so there has been zero musical progression in what Ritchie does, the brunt of his creative energy was exhausted by the late 70ies, he’s to guitar what Mark Rothko is to abstract painting.
@25 Matter of fact, RB is a Johnny Winter’s fan and prefers his playing to that of SRV’s. So do I, BTW. That shows that when it comes to music tastes and preferences, we might be bedfellows of people we criticize. )
I really love how Ritchie appreciates IG contributions to the song. Now what I don’t appreciate how he drove IG out and with him RG. Seriously it doesn’t make any sense. I love MK3 but why the crash the house down when it’s a beautiful construction. Does he ever regret that MK2 could have lasted for another 4 years and folded it up in 78 along with Zeppelin and BS. Just a thought Peace ✌️
24..yo.. calm down boy. I didn’t tend to offend anyone. Maybe I used the wrong word. I don’t know how to say it so let’s just say it doesn’t matter and leave it at that.
Bye the way. Longo live Ritchie Blackmore. I rally like those videos he does
“I always leave my posts with the wanting of world peace, that’s why I say it. But if you feel I’ve stolen this from your-person lol, I’ll use something else, no worries !”
And I thought you had it from Charlie Watts or whatever his name is, Gregster! 😂
“I was a little disappointed that Blackmore didn’t put the myth of the Carlos Lyra tune to bed, one way or the other. I call that a myth because unless it is proven, it doesn’t exist. The alleged rip off or borrowed idea that is often mentioned. There is a very real chance that it never happened that way.”
So the theory of relativity is a myth to you too, Herr MacGregor, interesting.
The Carlos Lyra tune – which was popular in early Swinging 60ies London when there was a short-lived craze there for Brazilian flavored lounge jazz – can very well have inspired Ritchie without him being aware of it. It is what happened to George Harrison who set out to write My Sweet Lord after having heard this
Even the judge in the litigation at the time (which George to his chagrin lost) granted to him that he lifted the melody subconsciously from the original.
The same thing has happened to me, I’ve written stuff and little melody pieces that seemed to come out of nowhere and years later I rehear a song that I haven’t heard for decades AND THERE IT IS! I was for years proud of a harmony I had written and incorporated into a song and then – after decades – I reheard the first album I ever owned, Alice Cooper’s Greatest Hits, and there it was, smack dab, as the intro to Desperado:
Actually, that is what I think also happened with Zep’s guitar intro to Stairway to Heaven and Taurus, the Spirit instrumental. Page probably heard Randy California play it when Zep and Spirit toured together, it became ingrained and he never thought about it again until he “came up” with it in the writing process for STH. And the forests will echo with royalties …
But it really doesn’t matter: Putting Lyra’s originally lounge-jazzish idea into a hard rock setting as Ritchie did is ingenuity enough for me. Ritchie did the same with Gershwin’s Fascinating Rhythm and Burn.
As über-pirate Keith Richard once said and I’m paraphrasing: “Any good riff or lick you hear anywhere has already been nicked several times over.”
When I first got into music it was Hendrix/Clapton/Page/some Beck then there was this guy in Deep Purple named Ritchie Blackmore. He was different- I didn’t know if he was masterful but he could play fast at times. But what made him different was he was unique in a unique band. Lord was the rhythm “guitar” in that band. Ritchie didn’t have to carry the rhythm and lead like Hendrix/Clapton and Page had to do. RB complemented Lord but he had the sweetest sounding guitar in a hard rock sound.
Soon it became almost too common where guitarists become so good technically they lost the soul of the music. Ingvie Malstreem makes want to scream while I hold my ears running out of the room. It gets boring
I tend to be attracted to guitarists that have personality: Blackmore/Beck/Matin Barre/Ronnie Montrose/Jan Akkerman/Phil Manzanera/Tommy Bolin/Manny Charlton/Steve Morse/Gary Moore and many more.
What makes Morse stand out is he has the capability of technique and feeling. Not necessarily the feel of RB but it’s wonderful in its own right. Despite what RB says I think Satriani has a gift say compared to Steve Vai who leaves me cold.
Just my two cents. Simple can be good because it’s accessible but run the risk of boring. Too much technique can give you a headache. To me good music moves you in some way
@ 33- indeed the ‘unholy’ trilogy of British bands & others were influenced by Hendrix. And we both like Robin Trower, there are plenty of influences from the wandering Hendrix gypsy, the bohemian & strolling minstrel that he was. His influence is also in his attitude, dress, & demeanour. I rate Hendrix very highly. But there is, just like anything else in life a limit as to how far that influence spreads, hence my comment. I admire Hendrix lyrics also, ‘hey mr business man, you ain’t never gonna dress like me’. Something like that. His modesty also, when asked the proverbial silly question ‘what does it feel like to be worlds greatest guitarist’ (Hendrix loathed all that sort of rubbish) he simply replied, ‘Well I don’t know, you would have to ask Rory Gallagher that’. He was a quiet reflective chap & a trail blazer. I was playing one of the alternative Band of Gypsys recordings last week. The other versions of Machine Gun are sublime indeed. @ 35 “I would respectfully disagree re Hendrix not being a pivotal figure in the history of electric rock guitar” I am not sure where you got that comment or idea from Uwe. We were talking about guitar players being influenced or not being influenced by him & there are plenty from both sides. “Take Hendrix out of the equation and that ABC camera at CalJam in 1974 would have remained unscathed and no Marshall would have exploded’ Are you forgetting The Who & their stage destruction hissy fits Uwe? Well before Jimi. Townshend had a big influence on many on that side of the pond. I am just trying to keep things in perspective here. It is a bit of many worlds when it comes to certain people being influenced by others. Cheers.
@ 40 – yes I am well aware of the Carlos Lyra & other music of that genre being popular & it very well could have been ‘subconsciously’ happened upon or it was a deliberate take on it. Blackmore many years ago revealed on video a host of Purple’s tunes & the ideas that sparked them, one song that was left out was Smoke, in a certain light that is. So upon seeing this new video here I immediately thought, wouldn’t it be nice for it to be discussed in that light & finally put to rest. Alas, it wasn’t to be so the gossip, innuendo, rumours & speculation will continue. I don’t lose sleep over it. Regarding the Taurus ‘Stairway intro’ issue, I do remember reading about the Jimmy Page memory lapse of sorts. Didn’t he allegedly deny having that album in his collection & then upon someone else’s memory revealing that it was in his collection, Page then suddenly recollected his memory & agreed that it was always there. Ha ha ha, oh dear oh dear. Anyway I don’t give a damn about the estate of Randy California attempting that well after the fact as Randy is no longer with us & hasn’t been for a long time. It was also revealed if I do recall, that that melody & chord structure was initially from a medieval time gone past. So that in itself would have revealed the true origins of that opening acoustic piece & the Zep lads then skipped away into the sunlight, with flowers in their hair. Cheers..
Uwe @36, excellent points. And what a masterpiece Blackmore, along with his fellow Purple bandmates, did create. But yes, timing was, if not everything, certainly pivotal in the world of rock and roll from the 60’s onward.
I wonder what might have become of Zeppelin had the band not disbanded following the death of Bonzo in 1980, but instead enlisted a new drummer and soldiered on. Might they have eventually faded into obscurity, their mythos tarnished by irrelevance in the post punk era, the Hair Metal years and the Grunge phenomenon?
In terms of career longevity, at least Blackmore has forged a more productive path through the Mark 2 reunion years, the brief Rainbow reunion years of the 90’s and to present day with Blackmore’s Night. But still, beyond us afficionados, who really knows or cares about Ritchie Blackmore.
Meanwhile someone like Jimmy Page whose best days are long behind him, and who has done minimal work since 1980 apart his mid-80’s The Firm project, the Coverdale/Page one-shot, his brief unledded project with Plant in the mid-90’s, and his Black Crowes cameos in the late 90s…….what new, fresh ideas have come from ZoSo? Yet Page remains this mythical, godlike figure to the present day, if we are to believe all the hurrahs and hype in the various media, assorted best ofs and greatest lists, etc.
Meanwhile Blackmore, like in the words of the late, great Rodney Dangerfield…..gets no respect! What did Page do right? What did Ritchie do wrong?
@ 45 – DeeperPurps, it would be Blackmore’s attitude in general I would think. Page & other guitarists never carried on like that, so yes Page is a ‘darling’ of sorts. I just noticed he was awarded some accolades for something the other day. I did think of you when I noticed that & I didn’t read it, it has me skeptical. Led Zeppelin did attach themselves to the USA blues history & culture, Blackmore never did go down that path & rightly so. It is a path well worn, too much for my liking. As much as I really like the older classic rock era guys hammering the blues at times, particularly if it is in a rocked up song format, I don’t really listen to ‘blues’ music a lot, never have. We hear it everywhere & it really leaves me wondering at times. Cheers.
RV, in my experience longer replies lead to a better decorum on sites like this one. People explain their views and their backgrounds more, there are less snappy reprisal/retaliatory emails, people exchange views more and try to understand other positions. In part, Twitter/X became such hellhole for a decent discourse because people there try to outdo each other with outrageous putdowns via a maximum of damage dealt with a minimum of words. Now I don’t mind snappy repartees, especially if they’re good-natured and witty as opposed to just insulting character assassinations, but I also like to dive a little deeper into how someone thinks.
Herr MacGregor, I knew you would bring up The Who, but to me me there is a difference: Intentional mistreatment of equipment by The Who was juvenile carnage, with Hendrix it was an erotic, mystic rite and with Blackmore a coldblooded assassination with tinges of S&M. That said, I was never a great fan of Ritchie doing it and I believe it harmed his reputation among his fellow musicians considerably. I’ve never met a single guitarist who liked Blackmore’s Strat smash-ups, a lot of people were outright repelled by it. It’s a bit like shooting dogs in gravel pits, that can prove harmful to political careers as well.
What would have happened if Led Zep had continued after Bonham’s wasteful death? I think they would have continued to release good and not so good albums over the years, but by and large retained their status as substantial sellers and crowd pleasers, perhaps become less of a mythological object of adulation and more like, say, the Stones. But I can’t see Robert Plant continuing for very much longer, I believe by the late 70ies he wanted to get off the gravy train and leave the world of stadium rock behind. I think by the end of the 80ies at the latest, he would have been definitely gone and switched to a solo career with less bombastic music. And I can’t really envisage Zep without him, Page is essentially lost without Plant, much as he (Jimmy) was Zep’s main musical director.
See? I can write about Led Zep without being snide once. 😂
My point @ 42 – exactly Uwe. Blackmore’s antics at the Cal Jam were very Who like. Hendrix didn’t do his ‘voodoo’ & shamanic ritual burning of his guitar out of anger like a spoilt brat, for want of a better description. The Who in general & Townshend in particular with his songwriting & advice to Ritchie in the early years to ‘keep it simple etc’, were a big influence on Blackmore. Their anarchic & rebellious behaviour looked like something Blackmore would have enjoyed I would think. When I first watched Blackmore doing that at the Cal Jam, I thought of The Who instantly, not Hendrix at all. Didn’t someone place explosives inside Keith Moon’s bass drum way back then. Cheers.
MacGregor @46, yes I think you’re right…some of Ritchie’s antics, and his less than cordial encounters with some rock journos didn’t help his case. That may have put him onto a blacklist of sorts. As for the blues and blues-based rock music, Ritchie was not strong a proponent of it and even described it as “boring”. I agree! Same however sold like hotcakes in the USA and as such, Zeppelin carved out a handsome niche there with it.
Uwe @47, yes “shooting dogs in gravel pits” aptly describes Ritchie’s Strat carnage. If it was occasional, maybe it might have flown, but it became a fixture of his performances and marred them, in my view. As for Zep, I agree, their star would have probably faded in the 80’s and the mythos would most probably have dissipated. Instead, similar to the demise of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain, the death of Bonham had an immortalizing effect which shot the band into the pantheon of rock gods.
Ditto, I restrained myself – no snark factor in my Zep screeds…..this time!
DeeperPurps @ 49 – Ian Gillan also as I have mentioned over at the ‘pent up feeling’ story. Both rebels, outspoken with an attitude. Good on them. Cheers.
The first time I saw Ritchie atomize a Strat (or something that looked like it) was that Munich Rainbow gig in 1977. Since I was so close up front (I even caught a piece, but then let go of it as everyone went for it because I thought it was getting silly). It was then still exciting, yes, but he was also worked up/adrenalized that night from his Austrian incarceration which added some drama.
I saw the same thing a couple of times more with Rainbow (where a girlfriend of mine reacted bewildered: “Now why is he breaking his guitar?” 😄) and once I think with Purple on the THOBL tour, but it was by then just as much an act as when Paul Stanley with KISS did it (KISS of all bands …, Paul and Gene were both good Jewish boys brought up in the firm belief of the Holocaust generation that you don’t break things on purpose, they would unceremoniously fire opening acts of KISS caught ravaging hotel rooms). I was glad when he stopped doing it altogether. Did he ever do it in Mk V?
Yeah, indeed, Blackmore’s role model re smashing guitars must have been good ole Pete judging from that My Generation clip.
I must say I much preferred Jimi’s semi-erotic, Voodoo occult approach. He didn’t smash guitars, he sacrificed them like virgins, nowadays a rare practice.
Hendrix & his take on it was much more of a ritual & conjuring up a part of his heritage in many aspects. The only problem was he didn’t have enough lighter fluid, or whatever his choice of accelerant was. Blackmore definitely over did the ongoing guitar wrecking thing. At least with the Cal Jam performance it did enable Purple to sort of ‘end’ the concert as the ‘headlining’ act. Poor ole ELP, how could you follow that. Keith Emerson gave it a good shot though, as he often did. Cheers.
@ 55- Karin I am most disappointed that after such a short sojourn into THS you are already seeking a more sophisticated & intelligent conversation! Not to mention the wit, cryptic observations & even a touch of spiritualism. Oh well, best to test out the waters then & report back. Enjoy. Cheers.
It all comes down to personal taste. There is obviously no such thing as the best, even though I think it can be said that RB was very good for DP, the same way Torme was very good for Gillan. Everyone contributed to the success of the band, Blackmore in particular. If that wasn’t the case, the “Blackmore vs…” debates would have stopped a long time ago.
Auntie, you’ve been making yourself rare! I thought you had made off with that Dr Lao of all people. While you were away, we had to make do with Karin. You know how the worst enemy of good is better …
Nice young man Uwe @69, every day your dear old aunt opens the door ever so slightly to peek into the yard to see if all the tykes are playing nicely in the HS sandbox! But oh my, how did you know that the kindly but mysterious Dr. Lao has been making housecalls chez moi? Goodness, you are a perceptive one. Dr. Lao has told me about you….he says your name is Grasshopper. I’m still trying to figure out what that means!
![[hand]](/hs-pics/portraits/hands/morse4.jpg)
![[face]](/hs-pics/portraits/faces/mcbride5.jpg)
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
I feel soooooo validated!!! Watch me goose 🪿 🪿🪿step 👢👢👢in excitement …
https://youtu.be/cZOVtxUIAZ0
For decades no one has believed me that Ritchie plays a C minor (with an Eb as the third) in the chorus, everyone plays – wrongly – a C Major (with an E as the third), all chord diagrams show a C Major and I believe that even der liebe Gregster was always highly skeptical of my claim too. Well, now we have it straight from the minstrel’s mouth: C minor it is, always was and ever will be.
And that is part of the magic of the song, because Big Ian sings an E in the chorus, he thinks major, Ritchie thought minor. And the half-note dissonance between Ritchie’s Eb and Gillan’s E gives the chorus once again that special quality. I believe at the time only Jon noticed the “mistake”, but stuck with it because he found it sounded interesting. And prudently stayed neutral like Switzerland, eschewing both an E and an Eb in his own organ power chord in which he didn’t play any thirds at all (Jon didn’t like playing thirds on the organ as a matter of principle, he thought it made the Hammond sound ‘too sweet’.)
And Marc Bolan plays a minor and not a major chord at the beginning of the chorus of Get It On (Bang A Gong) too, it makes all the “T. Rex Sound” difference. In nearly fifty years of playing that song, I have never met a single guitarist get that right either, they all play it as major.
September 22nd, 2024 at 21:10Evil Ritchie, long live the King! The joy of something different, Ritchie & Ian Paice together experimenting, ‘what haven’t we done yet” classic. Drummers eh, you just can’t live without them. Cheers.
September 22nd, 2024 at 21:26Yo,
@1…
Yourself & RB are wrong. Pick up your guitar & play the chords in the chorus. All this proves is how little RB actually knows about music…Some people can play fine, but have no idea of what they’re really doing.
qt.Jon Lord…”RB always had a maverick approach to chords”…This is a polite way of saying he has no idea.
Nb. RB almost always riffs in 4ths, with no 3rds in sight or in ears-drop. ‘Nuff said.
Play the tune, let your ears decide. I’ve said way-too-much on this silly matter already over the years, & I’m not going to repeat myself. I leave happily knowing that real musicians can here the truth lol !
Peace !
September 23rd, 2024 at 10:52Lieber Gregster, are you saying he DIDN’T play a C minor on the recording of the chorus or that he SHOULDN’T have played it (even though he had not yet heard Ian’s vocal melody to it?)?
A C Major chord sounds harmonic to the following G# Major/Ab Major chord of the chorus, no doubt, and Big Ian’s vocal line – consisting of E (smoke), Eb (on), C (the), Eb (waa…) + C (…ter) – fits perfectly to it as he then doesn’t sing anything outside of the scale (except for the then blue note minorish Eb) BUT it also then lacks the tension of the recording. Try playing a C Minor instead, yet still sing Big Ian’s C majorish vocal line 0f E, Eb and C over it, don’t you hear the difference and the effect it creates?
Two things:
– Why should Ritchie be to blame if he plays a C minor chord to Ian Paice’s drums when writing the song and only then Big Ian throws a curveball and starts the chorus on a note from the C Major scale? Your logic escapes me.
– Yes, Ritchie had a penchant for playing in fourths – SOTW, Burn, MOTSM, LLRnR, All Night Long, Spotlight Kid or Can’t Happen Here all employed fourths (Since You’ve Been Gone had thirds and was an exception from the rule), he said in an interview once that he took inspiration from Oscar Peterson for that after having seen him live
https://youtu.be/NTJhHn-TuDY,
“it made the notes sound so big and nasty”. It became part of DP’s trademark sound.
But deducing “he had no idea” from that? In that case, Jon Lord had “no idea” either because he avoided thirds in his organ chords too, saying in an interview once “you have to be careful with thirds on an organ, otherwise it quickly sounds too sweet and like circus music”. Fact of the matter was that both Ritchie and Jon simply preferred that sometimes harsh fourth-augmented sound, nothing more. (In Blackmore’s Night, Ritchie plays thirds all the time, so much and so sweet I get toothaches from it!)
And if Ritchie had “no idea” of music theory then where does that leave Tommy Bolin who played entirely on feel and what he heard? You’re changing the standards you apply to someone’s playing faster than your strings, mein Lieber! 😂
September 23rd, 2024 at 14:16I’ve been following this discussion for a long time without commenting, but thought I’d jump in here.
Here’s the isolated guitar-track from the Machine Head sessions.
At the chorus, Blackmore plays a C note, the fifth (G) and the octave C above.
So he doesn’t define if it’s minor or major chord, there’s no third there.
The vocal line starts off on the major third as we know, a minor chord behind the vocals would’ve ruined it 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPEZck9d9A
September 23rd, 2024 at 14:57You’re right MK44, he basically plays a power chord arpeggio of root, fifth and octave (as he was wont to do, it was typical for him for a time), not defining it with a major or minor third. But in his mind – see the interview – he was thinking the C power chord as a minor while Gillan imagined it as a major and snuck in his E.
When I play a C minor and sing Gillan’s E to it, then It doesn’t sound ruined however, it sounds atmospheric with that little tension there. At the same time when playing a C Major and singing the E, it sounds banal and children’s music-like. So perhaps the magic was to let Ian ‘decide’ with his E (which he quickly lowered to an Eb with the second chorus note) that the chord “expected” to be minorish actually turned out majorish.
This reminds me of something Sheryl Crow once explained in an interview: She said that at the beginning of her career she had mainly written on guitar, but then started doing it on bass because “on bass you start out with just playing the root, there is no predetermination whether something is Major or minor and that gives me more freedom in developing vocal lines, you tend to do unexpected things then”.
https://images.app.goo.gl/cN4evJTAaw8djC6QA
It gets more complicated though still: Listen to what Blackmore plays to the SOTW chorus in the Mk III version of the song
https://youtu.be/onRiV9ScldI
first time round at 03:02, namely the ascending notes C D Eb (= minor!) to the C chord and G# A# C (= major) to the G# (or Ab) chord. That indicates to me that he “understood” the C chord to be a minor (as he does in the interview). (When he repeats the chorus he plays the power chord arpeggios from Machine Head btw.) But DC and Glenn have meanwhile changed the chorus vocal melody of SOTW from Gillan’s original E-Eb-C-Eb-C to something (it’s hard to catch for me as they harmonize and are not quite accurate doing it) like G-F-D-F-C. Which is why the SOTW chorus as sung by MK III and IV never sounded quite like Big Ian’s initial melody.
Music class over!
September 23rd, 2024 at 18:14@3 You need to get over yourself. Ritchie has classical training and is globally recognized as one of the greatest guitarists of all time, having played with everybody and their brother since the 1950s. And here you are, more obscure than a most, pontificating that Ritchie knows nothing about music. Get a clue.
September 23rd, 2024 at 21:53@7…
ROTFLMAO…
RB can play some guitar, but he knows sweet-FA about discussing it properly or its theory. That is no-bullshyte. Or perhaps he’s bullshyting everyone once again as one-of-his japes ? I don’t think so. Jon Lord indicates the truth.
He apparently had 1-year travelling on his bike for classical lessons, the rest was hangin’-out the front of Big Jim Sullivan’s house, a true master…But there’s so-much bollox that comes from RB mouth, who really knows what’s true ?…That’s the problem with habitual liars.
Anyone with trained ears will tell you what’s going-on in the tune SOTW, & I’ve done this many times before, but it seems a waste of time with people who aren’t musically inclined.
RB is only an average guitarist. His stage-craft on a good night is what made him a reputable entertainer. That’s about it !
Let’s also not forget that RB has also stolen the bulk of successful DP tunes from elsewhere by his own admission. And the admin here provided a link to a South American artistes tune, that more than approximates the SOTW riff…
There’s nothing to discuss really. RB was in the right-place at the right time, that simple.
There are countless guitarists with superior abilities, both before & after “his” time. Have you checked-out Steve Morse or Simon yet. Great examples of superior musicians.
Peace !
September 23rd, 2024 at 23:19No comment about the ‘myth’ of the Carlos Lyra – Maria Moita (1964) song. Not surprising. Cheers.
September 24th, 2024 at 01:00#3 – Real musicians can “here the truth”? Where the truth?
September 24th, 2024 at 01:26Hear!Hear! James Gemmell. Brilliantly put 👏
September 24th, 2024 at 04:19Yo,
Short memories indeed you folks have..Here, watch this, & learn from the rest of the band yo !
https://youtu.be/pXAc77FevwU
Peace !
September 24th, 2024 at 09:57My measured take on all this is:
– There seem to be only these extreme perceptions of either Ritchie being this supremely gifted innovator with impeccable technique and then there is Gregster’s BCPCTSHL (= Blackmore can’t play crap to save his life) theory, with little middle ground in between. Neither does Blackmore justice.
– SIGNIFICANCE: Like most artists, Ritchie needs to be seen in the context of his times. I believe his heyday was from 1970 to 1976, give or take a year. In the first half of the 70ies he was no doubt a force to be reckoned with. In the 60ies people like Clapton, Hendrix, Beck and Page were in a different league to him (and he resented that), but come the 70s Hendrix was dead, Clapton no longer had aspirations to be the fastest gun in town (but rather a singer-songwriter), Beck became stylistically erratic and spent more time repairing cars and/or having accidents with them than playing with bands, so that only Page really persevered with Led Zep. In that period Blackmore was a very significant rock guitarist figure – aided of course by Purple’s considerable commercial clout (which in turn benefited from his skills and charisma).
– INNOVATION & IDIOSYNCRASY: Blackmore is widely seen as a progenitor of darkish, neoclassical rock lead guitar. People like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani have stated as much. Now he might not have been the only one, but in the early 70ies he certainly stood out with that (Steve Morse: “No one plays like Ritchie.”). Michael Schenker and Uli Jon Roth were both at least a couple of years later (not a coincidence that they are both German, Ritchie’s guitar playing has a Teutonic quality to it, no wonder Germany fell in love with him and his bands). So was EvH (whose style owed more to Ritchie than, say, Jimmy Page or Jeff Beck). In the 80ies a whole new generation of axemen adapted Blackmore influences for their own style: Malmsteen, Lynch, Goldie, Campbell, Vinnie Moore, Rand Rhoads, Jake E. Lee … More likely than not, they were technically more advanced than him by then, but it is the privilege of youth to be better at certain things than the people before them – it’s called evolution.
That whole neoclassical guitar style influence if of course largely relegated to the realm of heavy rock and heavy metal – I don’t hear a lot of Ritchie in how The Edge or Jack White plays. It has become a niche (though still a commercially viable one), but Ritchie is one of the forefathers.
– TECHNIQUE: To loan a phrase from Rush, our beloved Brethren Gregster shows little ‘Grace Under Pressure’ when people disagree with his (not entirely unfounded!) views. Whenever that happens, the world is suddenly populated by cretins who know nothing about music theory, can’t play guitar, have no concept of what true improvisation is or lack the appropriate stereo system to pass judgement on anything. Wow – “going out in the world and winning friends”, Gregster should really write a handbook about it.
If Ritchie was technically so unremarkable, I wonder why the otherwise also gifted Tommy Bolin had such a hard time getting just one of his solos or instrumental parts right. Now I love Tommy as much as Gregster, but if I may quote Martin Birch from the Come Taste The Band sessions: “Tommy was nowhere near as technically accomplished as Ritchie, I noticed that immediately, he played entirely on feel, but was very good at that in the studio.” I also have my doubts whether Ritchie’s overt and for rock guitarists untypical use of his pinkie (something Gregster readily tends to dismiss as irrelevant, most classical guitar teachers and Paco de Lucia too would, however, disagree) was something he learned while riding his bike and NOT taking guitar lessons. Nor do his alleged limited abilities explain why he became Joe Meek’s go-to-studio-guitarist while still a teen. In the early 70ies, Ritchie had a lightning fast plectrum technique and was even already doing arpeggio sweeps. Carving out your neck to gain more control of your bending and vibrato doesn’t strike me as strictly amateurish either. Nor can I remember in 1971 (and for a long time after that) a precise, largely non-bluesy guitar solo with as fast triplets/quadruplets as on Highway Star that did not employ any hammer-ons (like Alvin Lee’s likewise lightning-fast intro to I’m Going Home).
Gregster’s assessment of Ritchie’s capabilities also rests somewhat ill at ease with the judgement of the latter’s contemporaries. Jimmy Page, a man whose music I zealously love as is well-documented here, is on record for saying that his own lead guitar soloing skills were no match for Ritchie’s. Brian May has lauded Ritchie’s abilities too and offers his difficult character and contrarian as well as seclusive nature as the true reasons why Blackmore is not as prominent in the pantheon of great rock guitarists as he perhaps deserves to be.
MUSICAL KNOWLEDGE: So Ritchie supposedly doesn’t know what he is doing half or even all the time. Hmm, interesting, given Don Airey’s comment about Ritchie not being a “natural” like Randy Rhoads or Michael Schenker, “because he overthinks what he does”. Gregster has just invented for us the clueless overthinker, make a note of it. 😁
Most people here will remember that I’m not the world’s greatest Blackmore’s Night fan, but does Ritchie’s playing there really support that he has no grasp of Western musical theory? Never mind how he from the late 60ies onwards would incorporate various scales – and traverse freely between them all over the neck during a single solo – in his soloing that were rare/unheard of in a pop/rock context at the time. Blackmore is no jazz player, granted. But go look for another guitar melody like the one in Pictures Of Home in 1971/72. If anything, his worked out solos in Highway Star and Burn evidence that he has a firm footing in Western music theory, firmer than perhaps in Mississippi Delta Blues.
*************
Ritchie was never “the world’s best rock guitarist” (nor did he profess to be) if there even is such a thing, but he was very nimble, stylish & had finesse as well as consistently ploughed his own furrow, sometimes to his detriment as he narrowed his style a bit too much (he was VERY aware of all these qualities of his – the motor of Deep Purple was no shrinking violet …). I fail to understand why in 2024 he should be elevated to more OR denigrated to less.
And claiming that Steve Morse and Simon McBride are “superior musicians” to Ritchie is just a bald statement of taste – not of fact.
Vielen Dank for listening.
September 24th, 2024 at 10:23@8……to suggest that Ritchie Blackmore had but merely average ability on the guitar is way off the mark, and frankly, laughable. He was superior in skill to most of his contemporaries – the only other one who came close, or who may have been slightly better, was Jeff Beck; who by the way had very little musical schooling himself.
And to suggest that somehow, only schooled, musically-educated musicians have the requisite knowledge and skill to be able to judge the merits of a guitarist, smacks of musical snobbery and elitism which is so often found in the jazz world and its fringes.
As for guitarists who followed in Blackmore’s footsteps, and there are legions of them, including Van Halen, Rhoads, Malmsteen, Vai, Satriani, and yes, even Steve Morse and Simon McBride et al; he was a key influence. Ritchie set the benchmark upon which those others excelled and expanded guitar virtuosity – he was the pioneer…the Godfather. Blackmore was way ahead of the pack in the late 60’s to late 70’s.
One does not have to like Blackmore the person to appreciate Blackmore the virtuoso guitarist.
One does not need to go to music school, nor learn musical theory, nor put in countless hours of practice, to be able to hear who is a superior guitarist and who isn’t. The ears do that….just like they did for Jeff Beck.
If one has the privilege of having musical training and can hear more than the average punter, wonderful….but that doesn’t make said scholar’s opinion any more valid than a regular music afficionado’s point of view. It simply offers a different perspective. And importantly, music education doesn’t give license to denigrate Blackmore the player nor those people who hold him in high regard.
September 24th, 2024 at 13:25Well may I say, Gregster… Ritchie sure knew how to create an image of a genius … the black clothes, the cat moves, the bad tempered appearence, lefty guitar upside down, evil eyed, never smiling, rarely speaking … all that stuff. And there may be guitarists that are better technically. But he is a master of improvisation. BTW: He never claimed to be a good writer, arranger, technicallly brillant or a great teamplayer. He said he just knew how to improvise on stage. And I have heard Jazz- and Blues-players say they didn’t like his music and his antics at all but he’d play a mean guitar. Or, as one would put it: He’s a socerer.
May I add that Brian May is on record saying several times that Ritchie Blackmore is the most underrated guitar player and does not get the praise he deserves. Mind you: He gets a lot of praise – so obviously he deserves even more. He sure does.
September 24th, 2024 at 13:27Yo,
Jimi Hendrix. He’s the man everyone followed folks…
(Did anyone bother to watch the video in previous post) ?
Peace !
September 24th, 2024 at 14:32“Did anyone bother to watch the video in previous post?”
What should your link to Come Hell Or High Water (the album) teach us, Gregster? I fail to see the argument. Enlighten me.
September 24th, 2024 at 15:05Oh, boy, does it matter? Are you really hassling about a halfnote about one of the greatest rock guitarists and the simplest tune? Bach with his sons and Wagner will stay in our culture for centuries. But that is a different league. Rock is what it is: half knowledge and full of hart and guts Imminent. Let us not get too schcolastic.
September 24th, 2024 at 16:02A flash thought:
It’s been 31 friggin’ years since Ritchie took his pilgrim hat and waved good-bye to Purple one last time …
“Fly into the rising sun …
Work permit torn, then I’m gone …”.
🎶 🎵
29 years since he scarecrowed us with his last semblance of a studio rock album. Much like communism, he ain’t coming back. You can have medieval class society galore though!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sY_RV_mOGg8
Isn’t it time for adherents …
https://reelantagonist.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/telepaths-worshipping.jpg?w=1200
and naysayers …
https://64.media.tumblr.com/f514555e745dbb6e341342e02ef60db7/tumblr_ojpakj9Uop1sqf5tdo1_640.gif
alike to get over their grief OR elation – whatever rang your bell at the time – that he left? 😎
September 24th, 2024 at 17:02reading all these comments is very funny. but also a little stupid. so allow me to add two lines of stupidity.
September 24th, 2024 at 18:10bathroom break over..back to work
He forgot to mention that he copied the riff :
https://rikardomusic.blogspot.com/2019/07/classico-do-deep-purple-e-plagio.html?m=1
September 24th, 2024 at 18:53@8 Sure, that’s why Ritchie outsold all of them – by far- and has way more hits, etcetera. Go play with your crayons and let knowledgeable fans comment on the music.
September 24th, 2024 at 22:05The Hun @18: I didn’t mention the half-note dissonance to put Ritchie and Ian down, I actually like the ensuing result melodically and harmonically. If you know the rules, you’re allowed to break’em is what I always say. Ritchie would sometimes do unorthodox things in all his orthodoxy (like expecting heavy rock lead vocalists to have long hair) – I’ve always appreciated that. Defying convention is fine with me.
September 24th, 2024 at 22:58Uwe @19, Indeed Ritchie left the band eons ago but nevertheless forged an indelible stamp on Purple which remains to this day; hence the moniker of the webpage hereupon which we write, and numerous other examples (eg: the classic Mark II songs which remain within the concert setlists still, etc.).
Sure Ritchie is gone…..off to Sherwood Forest, plying his Merry Minstrel trade for the avid Rennies, and for those few keen porphorophiles still desperate to hear one last blast from Blacker’s Strat.
The point is that Blackmore was the key founder of Deep Purple, and the guitarist who took Purple to the stratosphere in the 70’s. He had a distinctive style all his own which was more sophisticated and technical than those of Hendrix, Page or Clapton. Maybe the world wasn’t ready for a Blackmore then or now….it seems the masses are still generally content to listen to the dulcet tones of minor pentatonic and blues scales & licks in guitar solos.
As you have rightly pointed out, the hordes of younger guitarists who followed Blackmore, were building on the trail blazed by His Blackness. Technical prowess and guitar virtuosity expanded in the 1980’s and certainly evolved past Blackmore’s own not insubstantial abilities, BUT, he must be given his due….he was the first, he was the pioneer.
Whatever one thinks of Ritchie’s personality and any character flaws he might have demonstrated through the years, one cannot ignore the man’s talent and genius.
Whether Ritchie is one’s cup of tea or not….whether Ritchie was a schooled musician or not……whether Ritchie remembered his solos note for note -NOT!! (and that’s certainly a good thing!)…….whether subsequent Purple guitarists were/are more technically gifted than he……Well, none of that really matters in the grand scheme of things. But Ritchie’s time in Deep Purple and in Rainbow definitely left us with some of the most viscerally exciting guitar playing ever performed.
Ritchie left his mark, and no other guitarist in Purple, no matter how good or original or unique, has left such an enduring legacy.
AND to QuelloCheHaRagione @20……the whole point of this Highway Star webpage forum is to discuss and debate the merits of Deep Purple music, its players, our opinions, etc.; in a respectful manner. There is nothing stupid here. All points are valid if presented respectfully. If one is not happy to read such points of view, one simply does not have to scroll through these comments, nor to post about them.
September 24th, 2024 at 23:48Yo,
@20…Agreed, but what’s more compelling may be what one is laughing at….
@21…Yes, it appears to slip peoples minds at times, just how much stuff was stolen / borrowed in the early-daze…
@19…Indeed, & he has his own website too…( hint, hint )…
@18…Very true, yet some folks insist on not thinking things through for themselves, (which is only a lack-of-confidence in their own ability to determine some things such as music & its theory), & prefer to support false claims…
@17…It teaches us that RB is incredibly funny, but won’t honour a contact, & will walk-out-on-you when you may need him the most…Not a top-bloke…
Also, some folks have suggested that RB was in a league-of-his-own, & to me, that simply means they haven’t heard of people like Johnny Winter…A school-teacher gave me a live Johnny Winter album called “Capture Live” to listen to back in 1984-5 or so, & I thought “Wow, there are people out there that can play better than RB, I don’t believe it”…And since that time, I’ve discovered plenty of guitarists that have expanded their musicianship over their careers, unlike RB ( well, 15th century folk-music-aside perhaps )…
Anyhow, much more fruitful to listen to, & explore the panoramic & dynamic musical landscapes that Steve & Simon offer us, & let’s not forget about Don, who has without doubt given the keys in DP a complete & expanded rebirth with great success.
Long live DP !!! Let the fun continue 🙂 !
Peace !
September 25th, 2024 at 00:12@ 16 – everyone followed Hendrix? Not likely, Rory Gallagher didn’t, even Steve Howe & also John McLaughlin. There are plenty more guitarists who didn’t join the masses of the worshippers Gregster. Are we talking rock, blues, jazz, classical, flamenco & country etc. Or is it just rock/blues per se with a touch of psychedelia etc. Hendrix was influential to some, an icon to many, but everyone? Cheers.
September 25th, 2024 at 02:47Haha, wtf!!!!
If this guy thinks Blackmore is only an average player than why is he even on this forum.
PEACE! btw, I used to sign my posts like that he started after me, so I stopped doing it
September 25th, 2024 at 03:35To the original topic: maybe Ritchie intended a C minor and Gillan wasn’t supposed to sing an E natural… But since the instruments didn’t play the third of the chord… It would have worked either way. And the E natural was probably the more dramatic choice for the vocal melody.
Or it could be that RB is mis-remembering what he originally intended, 50+ years ago.
Does it matter? Whatever the case, it’s beyond belief that he wouldn’t have known the difference between major and minor chords.
Regarding Ritchie’s ability: Uwe @13 – well said. Only thing I would disagree with is “his heyday was from 1970 to 1976, give or take a year”.
Pretty much from the moment Purple came out of the gate in 1968 he was laying down attention-grabbing solos like “Kentucky Woman” and “The Shield”.
And while much of his work on “Shades…’ was smothered by excessive wah-wah, even on that debut LP his “And The Address” solo was full of cool, unexpected note choices.
Also the band’s playing – not merely RB’s onstage antics – was supposedly a factor in their being dropped from the Cream tour after a few shows, for upstaging the headliners. From the only MKI live show released so far, we can hear that he was already a pretty fluid improviser.
And as late as the 1984-93 reunion era, his bombastic solos were sometimes the only signs of life in what was at times lacklustre material. He had a pretty good run!
Was his playing a little sloppy compared to many of the post-Eddie Van Halen shredders? Sure. Even by the mid-1970s he had been overtaken, chops-wise, by Ulrich Roth, Bill Nelson, Ollie Halsall etc… To say nothing of more fusion-y guys like Allan Holdsworth. But by the standards of rock guitarists who emerged in the 1960s, there’s no doubt his playing was among the most proficient.
And, as you pointed out, he excelled in areas other than raw technique. Aren’t creativity, phrasing and sheer musicality good enough reasons to listen to someone’s music? Otherwise why do people still enjoy listening to 50s hotshots such as Cliff Gallup, Scotty Moore, James Burton? Guys whose playing sounded a little quaint even by the time the players of the next decade such as Beck and Blackmore came along.
To denigrate Ritchie’s playing during his prime, now decades past, is akin to saying Roger Bannister wasn’t a great athlete because, since he broke the four-minute barrier back in 1954, other runners have run a mile faster.
PS – Speaking of guitarists who followed in RB’s footsteps, one who cites him as an influence but hasn’t been mentioned yet is “the small but perfectly formed Nik Kershaw”. Known mostly as an 80s pop star, he is also a superb songwriter whose – often tantalisingly brief – guitar breaks show flashes of his hard rock and prog background.
September 25th, 2024 at 05:54One point I can see in what Gregster writes is something that reflects on so many fans of any artists, RB included. Fans often credit their particular as “the best”, “no one can compare to him/her”, basically a can-do-no-wrong worshipping attitude.
Over the million or so years I’ve been a fan and also been involved in this site and other DP related forums, there are often a big bunch of people who claims RB was the best guitarist of all times. Also that if it wasn’t for him, none of what DP has created wouldn’t have happened. This is of course just as silly as the Swifties claiming Ms, Taylor is the best singer/guitarist/whatever.
What is “the best” anyway when we are discussing music? And does these people really think everyone else in DP didn’t contribute at all to the band’s success? Again, silly.
And then, just as ridiculous, is that these people seem to think that questioning RB’s saintly status is a personal insult on themselves.
September 25th, 2024 at 06:10@26: True. It’s like when people claim various similar things about The Beatles. There are successful musicians who couldn’t care less about Hendrix or Beatles, or Elvis.
Sure, you can probably create some tenuous connection between any musicians if you windle far enough down inspirations and influences, but it’s too easy to say that people like Hendrix “started it all”.
September 25th, 2024 at 06:14Just bought a new turntable after many yrs.. long story but listening closely to the classic mk2 from my old vinyl collection there is a uniqueness to their overall sound .. esp on MIJ that just cant be replicated .. the whole really was a result of the talented parts united. Smoke might appear a simple song but pull it apart and it surprises at every turn!!!
September 25th, 2024 at 07:59I was a little disappointed that Blackmore didn’t put the myth of the Carlos Lyra tune to bed, one way or the other. I call that a myth because unless it is proven, it doesn’t exist. The alleged rip off or borrowed idea that is often mentioned. There is a very real chance that it never happened that way. Why hasn’t he ever mentioned that Maria Moita song. Does he even know about its existence. Or is he keeping quite about it for some other reason. His missus is online & internet savvy it appears. I would not be surprised that she has mentioned what she may have read here or in other places about the Smoke riff debate. Anyway at present I go for the former, it just happens to be one of those similar musical coincidences, which there are hundreds & hundreds of in music of any genre, criss crossing the realms of composition & improvisation. Cheers.
September 25th, 2024 at 10:28Yo,
@26…It’s just simple to say that without Jimi & his influence, DP, LZ & BS likely would not have sounded the way they did, or found the success that they did, & that includes Cream also, simply ask Eric his thoughts.
I’m not a massive Hendrix fan to be quite honest, but it would bevery foolish to ignore the impact he had. He was the most important “game changer” in R&R & popular music that’s ever been. Anyone of note in that time-frame of 1967-70 will tell you the same. Hard to brush things like that away. The musical books I have from that time-frame all speak about Jimi, everyone else can fight for 2nd-place.
Walk down any street in the world, & ask any young person “Do you know of Jimi Hemdrix”?…And you’ll likely find that they’ll say something like “Yeah, I’ve heard of him”…Ask the same thing about RB, & the reply would likely be “Who” ?…
@30…Generally, ( & sadly ) a persons success is gauged by the amount of chart-successes & income generated. Or if you rather, money talks, bullshyte walks.
For myself, I follow a different quality, & if a band or musician is delivering the goods to keep my ears satisfied with their expanding hunger, they get my approval. It’s important that the music doesn’t go stale, & that I celebrate everyone that’s made an impression to my own musical vocabulary that I identify with.
That said, imo, RB’s contributions went stale a long time ago to my ears, & that’s why I say I’m glad he left DP, & went on to pursue his own musical needs. DP have changed so much since he left, & they remain a happy, dynamic, & important musical force.
Long live DP
I always leave my posts with the wanting of world peace, that’s why I say it. But if you feel I’ve stolen this from your-person lol, I’ll use something else, no worries !
Adonai vasu !
September 25th, 2024 at 11:41@29 Svante….It’s a given that people would gravitate to this particular Deep Purple-based site to write about their own favourite guitarist, whether that be Blackmore or Bolin or Morse or some other musician. I believe that is why this forum exists and thrives.
Whether statements made to the effect that this or that or some other guitarist or musician is “the best” really becomes more a reflection of the personal preference and passion of the fan concerned. In my view, there’s nothing wrong nor silly about that – this is a fan-based page wherein people should be free to express such opinions, provided it’s done respectfully.
Any fan-based site devoted to Zeppelin will have its adherents claiming that Page was the greatest of all time. Any Black Sabbath-based site will have its Ozzy versus Dio camps. Other sites and their posters will claim Hendrix was the greatest guitarist ever. Other pages will have their own bests and darlings. That is simply the nature of fandom at large.
And here in PurpleLand, it’s no different……with the plethora of musicians who have come and gone through the band, there is even more on display for us fans to talk about, lots to debate about who is/ was the best, the favourite, the most remarkable, etc, etc. Most of it pleasant and rewarding, albeit sometimes with a touch of silliness, but hopefully with a minimum of condescension.
So, now back to the original point of the video presented by Mrs. Blackmore here. Old Ritchie is reminicising about how he constructed the riff of Smoke, and some of the chords he played. Somehow the discussion here morphed into a debate of minors, majors, thirds and fourths. That is all well and good.
Where it became contentious for some of the correspondents here, was the suggestion that Ritchie doesn’t know musical theory, was merely an average guitar player, was simply lucky to have been at the right place right time, etc, etc. And further, there was an inference that some of us here who are not musically “educated”, hold opinions of less merit on the matter. Such statements could be deemed provacative, and are sure to elicit strong responses.
I mean really…..here we are on a Deep Purple fan forum wherein the original guitarist is being slammed. Should one expect anything less of the fan base here? Of course there will be a battery of passionate retorts to such statements.
September 25th, 2024 at 12:56I would respectfully disagree re Hendrix not being a pivotal figure in the history of electric rock guitar – and I’m not even a Hendrix fan, I just appreciate him and recognize his importance. But I’m sure that no other guitar deity who saw him in the second half of the 60ies came away unimpressed from that experience, irrespective whether this led to an attempt to then emulate all or parts of his style.
Blackmore once said about Hendrix that there was nothing Hendrix did that could technically not be replicated, but that the whole package was utterly mesmerizing: Hendrix’ hair, looks, flamboyant dress sense, erotic relationship to his guitar, on and off stage demeanor, voice, choice of guitar and amp brands, sounds, freedom and wild abandon in playing. Beck (“He went straight between the eyes!”, a phrase Ritchie heard from Beck when describing Hendrix and then loaned it for the title of a Rainbow album), Clapton (“One of us needs to get hair like him.”to his Cream colleagues) and Page have said much the same. And I can’t believe that a young Rory – another great guitar player – did not als take in what Hendrix did as did Johnny Winter by the way (who is in turn rated by Blackmore as his favorite Blues player, ahead of SRV, Blackmore thought Winter criminally underrated).
I think the greatest debt Ritchie owes to Hendrix lies not in copping a few licks and chords or rewriting Little Wing as Catch The Rainbow, not even in the Strat & Marshall image (Blackmore played neither before Hendrix’ arrival on the London scene), but in a sense of performance drama inspired by Jimi. Take Hendrix out of the equation and that ABC camera at CalJam in 1974 would have remained unscathed and no Marshall would have exploded.
Personally, I actually think that the little guy from Minneapolis was the guitarist closest to Hendrix IN SPIRIT. That transcends WHAT you play, rather having a whole lot to do with HOW you play it. Watch here at 03:28 and tell me I’m wrong …
https://youtu.be/dWRCooFKk3c
September 25th, 2024 at 12:56“Ritchie left his mark, and no other guitarist in Purple, no matter how good or original or unique, has left such an enduring legacy.”
No contest, Honorable DeeperPürps, but he also had a more or less blank canvas to work from in 1968/69 – it was a time of musical upheaval and innovation. In contrast, Bolin, Satriani, Morse and McBride all joined a well-established dinosaur of a band where the legacy musicians and the market already had certain expectations. They only had limited room to reinvent the band, and especially with the latter three the age of the lead guitarero-dominated arena rock band had already passed. No one gives a hoot about the guitar solos in U2, Coldplay or Taylor Swift songs, ’tis true.
We don’t know how Purple would have turned out had Jeff Beck or Jimmy Page answered the call in 1968, but I think both would have been at least good for one or two remarkable albums (ignoring for a minute how both Beck and Page would have likely not preferred a line-up with as strong and prominent a keyboarder/organist as Jon), if not built the enduring legacy Ritchie did. He was made for DP and DP were made for him.
But at the same: Had Ritchie not left in 1975 and again in 1993, a scenario where DP Mk III would have successfully continued into the 80ies and/or a Ritchie-fronted Purple would have been playing the rock circuit for the last 30 years can be definitely ruled out as an even remotely realistic perspective. Ritchie’s departures were inevitable. And if you ask me, then Blackmore’s Night, the band he has played longest with and with the most consistent line-ups too, can hardly be seen as sound innovators and masters of reinvention. When did you last hear a Blackmore’s Night number that surprised you? For the last 40 years or so there has been zero musical progression in what Ritchie does, the brunt of his creative energy was exhausted by the late 70ies, he’s to guitar what Mark Rothko is to abstract painting.
https://i.etsystatic.com/38303456/r/il/67203a/4800792793/il_1588xN.4800792793_hjke.jpg
Vanity-PS: Did anybody notice how I started this posting with “blank canvas” and ended it with Mark Rothko? Wasn’t that great?
https://media.tenor.com/7k9aTZwLXg0AAAAM/kermit.gif
September 25th, 2024 at 15:02@25 Matter of fact, RB is a Johnny Winter’s fan and prefers his playing to that of SRV’s. So do I, BTW. That shows that when it comes to music tastes and preferences, we might be bedfellows of people we criticize. )
September 25th, 2024 at 15:13I really love how Ritchie appreciates IG contributions to the song.
September 25th, 2024 at 15:26Now what I don’t appreciate how he drove IG out and with him RG.
Seriously it doesn’t make any sense.
I love MK3 but why the crash the house down when it’s a beautiful construction.
Does he ever regret that MK2 could have lasted for another 4 years and folded it up in 78 along with Zeppelin and BS.
Just a thought
Peace ✌️
24..yo.. calm down boy. I didn’t tend to offend anyone. Maybe I used the wrong word. I don’t know how to say it so let’s just say it doesn’t matter and leave it at that.
Bye the way. Longo live Ritchie Blackmore.
September 25th, 2024 at 18:21I rally like those videos he does
“I always leave my posts with the wanting of world peace, that’s why I say it. But if you feel I’ve stolen this from your-person lol, I’ll use something else, no worries !”
And I thought you had it from Charlie Watts or whatever his name is, Gregster! 😂
https://www.billboard.com/wp-content/uploads/media/ringo-starr-peace-portrait-billboard-2016-1548.jpg
Or was it Sandra Bullock who drummed with the Stones?
https://i.gifer.com/G8SQ.gif
*******************************************************************************
“I was a little disappointed that Blackmore didn’t put the myth of the Carlos Lyra tune to bed, one way or the other. I call that a myth because unless it is proven, it doesn’t exist. The alleged rip off or borrowed idea that is often mentioned. There is a very real chance that it never happened that way.”
So the theory of relativity is a myth to you too, Herr MacGregor, interesting.
The Carlos Lyra tune – which was popular in early Swinging 60ies London when there was a short-lived craze there for Brazilian flavored lounge jazz – can very well have inspired Ritchie without him being aware of it. It is what happened to George Harrison who set out to write My Sweet Lord after having heard this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PevFV3qAvQw
but somewhere in the crevices of his mind this lit up without him realizing …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHx4hk7H51o
Even the judge in the litigation at the time (which George to his chagrin lost) granted to him that he lifted the melody subconsciously from the original.
The same thing has happened to me, I’ve written stuff and little melody pieces that seemed to come out of nowhere and years later I rehear a song that I haven’t heard for decades AND THERE IT IS! I was for years proud of a harmony I had written and incorporated into a song and then – after decades – I reheard the first album I ever owned, Alice Cooper’s Greatest Hits, and there it was, smack dab, as the intro to Desperado:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq1S5LjPsc4
Actually, that is what I think also happened with Zep’s guitar intro to Stairway to Heaven and Taurus, the Spirit instrumental. Page probably heard Randy California play it when Zep and Spirit toured together, it became ingrained and he never thought about it again until he “came up” with it in the writing process for STH. And the forests will echo with royalties …
But it really doesn’t matter: Putting Lyra’s originally lounge-jazzish idea into a hard rock setting as Ritchie did is ingenuity enough for me. Ritchie did the same with Gershwin’s Fascinating Rhythm and Burn.
As über-pirate Keith Richard once said and I’m paraphrasing: “Any good riff or lick you hear anywhere has already been nicked several times over.”
https://25.media.tumblr.com/39b753ab2c12cd00a32325f07c96a0ac/tumblr_mxns8vzg2b1qap3fro1_500.gif
Peace!
https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Screen-Shot-2019-05-10-at-9.58.57-PM.jpg
September 25th, 2024 at 18:25When I first got into music it was Hendrix/Clapton/Page/some Beck then there was this guy in Deep Purple named Ritchie Blackmore. He was different- I didn’t know if he was masterful but he could play fast at times. But what made him different was he was unique in a unique band. Lord was the rhythm “guitar” in that band. Ritchie didn’t have to carry the rhythm and lead like Hendrix/Clapton and Page had to do. RB complemented Lord but he had the sweetest sounding guitar in a hard rock sound.
Soon it became almost too common where guitarists become so good technically they lost the soul of the music. Ingvie Malstreem makes want to scream while I hold my ears running out of the room. It gets boring
I tend to be attracted to guitarists that have personality: Blackmore/Beck/Matin Barre/Ronnie Montrose/Jan Akkerman/Phil Manzanera/Tommy Bolin/Manny Charlton/Steve Morse/Gary Moore and many more.
What makes Morse stand out is he has the capability of technique and feeling. Not necessarily the feel of RB but it’s wonderful in its own right. Despite what RB says I think Satriani has a gift say compared to Steve Vai who leaves me cold.
Just my two cents. Simple can be good because it’s accessible but run the risk of boring. Too much technique can give you a headache. To me good music moves you in some way
September 25th, 2024 at 22:45@ 33- indeed the ‘unholy’ trilogy of British bands & others were influenced by Hendrix. And we both like Robin Trower, there are plenty of influences from the wandering Hendrix gypsy, the bohemian & strolling minstrel that he was. His influence is also in his attitude, dress, & demeanour. I rate Hendrix very highly. But there is, just like anything else in life a limit as to how far that influence spreads, hence my comment. I admire Hendrix lyrics also, ‘hey mr business man, you ain’t never gonna dress like me’. Something like that. His modesty also, when asked the proverbial silly question ‘what does it feel like to be worlds greatest guitarist’ (Hendrix loathed all that sort of rubbish) he simply replied, ‘Well I don’t know, you would have to ask Rory Gallagher that’. He was a quiet reflective chap & a trail blazer. I was playing one of the alternative Band of Gypsys recordings last week. The other versions of Machine Gun are sublime indeed. @ 35 “I would respectfully disagree re Hendrix not being a pivotal figure in the history of electric rock guitar” I am not sure where you got that comment or idea from Uwe. We were talking about guitar players being influenced or not being influenced by him & there are plenty from both sides. “Take Hendrix out of the equation and that ABC camera at CalJam in 1974 would have remained unscathed and no Marshall would have exploded’ Are you forgetting The Who & their stage destruction hissy fits Uwe? Well before Jimi. Townshend had a big influence on many on that side of the pond. I am just trying to keep things in perspective here. It is a bit of many worlds when it comes to certain people being influenced by others. Cheers.
September 25th, 2024 at 23:03I seem to recall times where this site was easier to read.
Too long replies now, and like I suggested before, being throlled by someone who used to be here before, under a different monicker
September 25th, 2024 at 23:22@ 40 – yes I am well aware of the Carlos Lyra & other music of that genre being popular & it very well could have been ‘subconsciously’ happened upon or it was a deliberate take on it. Blackmore many years ago revealed on video a host of Purple’s tunes & the ideas that sparked them, one song that was left out was Smoke, in a certain light that is. So upon seeing this new video here I immediately thought, wouldn’t it be nice for it to be discussed in that light & finally put to rest. Alas, it wasn’t to be so the gossip, innuendo, rumours & speculation will continue. I don’t lose sleep over it. Regarding the Taurus ‘Stairway intro’ issue, I do remember reading about the Jimmy Page memory lapse of sorts. Didn’t he allegedly deny having that album in his collection & then upon someone else’s memory revealing that it was in his collection, Page then suddenly recollected his memory & agreed that it was always there. Ha ha ha, oh dear oh dear. Anyway I don’t give a damn about the estate of Randy California attempting that well after the fact as Randy is no longer with us & hasn’t been for a long time. It was also revealed if I do recall, that that melody & chord structure was initially from a medieval time gone past. So that in itself would have revealed the true origins of that opening acoustic piece & the Zep lads then skipped away into the sunlight, with flowers in their hair. Cheers..
September 25th, 2024 at 23:37Uwe @36, excellent points. And what a masterpiece Blackmore, along with his fellow Purple bandmates, did create. But yes, timing was, if not everything, certainly pivotal in the world of rock and roll from the 60’s onward.
I wonder what might have become of Zeppelin had the band not disbanded following the death of Bonzo in 1980, but instead enlisted a new drummer and soldiered on. Might they have eventually faded into obscurity, their mythos tarnished by irrelevance in the post punk era, the Hair Metal years and the Grunge phenomenon?
In terms of career longevity, at least Blackmore has forged a more productive path through the Mark 2 reunion years, the brief Rainbow reunion years of the 90’s and to present day with Blackmore’s Night. But still, beyond us afficionados, who really knows or cares about Ritchie Blackmore.
Meanwhile someone like Jimmy Page whose best days are long behind him, and who has done minimal work since 1980 apart his mid-80’s The Firm project, the Coverdale/Page one-shot, his brief unledded project with Plant in the mid-90’s, and his Black Crowes cameos in the late 90s…….what new, fresh ideas have come from ZoSo? Yet Page remains this mythical, godlike figure to the present day, if we are to believe all the hurrahs and hype in the various media, assorted best ofs and greatest lists, etc.
Meanwhile Blackmore, like in the words of the late, great Rodney Dangerfield…..gets no respect! What did Page do right? What did Ritchie do wrong?
September 26th, 2024 at 02:26@ 45 – DeeperPurps, it would be Blackmore’s attitude in general I would think. Page & other guitarists never carried on like that, so yes Page is a ‘darling’ of sorts. I just noticed he was awarded some accolades for something the other day. I did think of you when I noticed that & I didn’t read it, it has me skeptical. Led Zeppelin did attach themselves to the USA blues history & culture, Blackmore never did go down that path & rightly so. It is a path well worn, too much for my liking. As much as I really like the older classic rock era guys hammering the blues at times, particularly if it is in a rocked up song format, I don’t really listen to ‘blues’ music a lot, never have. We hear it everywhere & it really leaves me wondering at times. Cheers.
September 26th, 2024 at 07:30RV, in my experience longer replies lead to a better decorum on sites like this one. People explain their views and their backgrounds more, there are less snappy reprisal/retaliatory emails, people exchange views more and try to understand other positions. In part, Twitter/X became such hellhole for a decent discourse because people there try to outdo each other with outrageous putdowns via a maximum of damage dealt with a minimum of words. Now I don’t mind snappy repartees, especially if they’re good-natured and witty as opposed to just insulting character assassinations, but I also like to dive a little deeper into how someone thinks.
Herr MacGregor, I knew you would bring up The Who, but to me me there is a difference: Intentional mistreatment of equipment by The Who was juvenile carnage, with Hendrix it was an erotic, mystic rite and with Blackmore a coldblooded assassination with tinges of S&M. That said, I was never a great fan of Ritchie doing it and I believe it harmed his reputation among his fellow musicians considerably. I’ve never met a single guitarist who liked Blackmore’s Strat smash-ups, a lot of people were outright repelled by it. It’s a bit like shooting dogs in gravel pits, that can prove harmful to political careers as well.
What would have happened if Led Zep had continued after Bonham’s wasteful death? I think they would have continued to release good and not so good albums over the years, but by and large retained their status as substantial sellers and crowd pleasers, perhaps become less of a mythological object of adulation and more like, say, the Stones. But I can’t see Robert Plant continuing for very much longer, I believe by the late 70ies he wanted to get off the gravy train and leave the world of stadium rock behind. I think by the end of the 80ies at the latest, he would have been definitely gone and switched to a solo career with less bombastic music. And I can’t really envisage Zep without him, Page is essentially lost without Plant, much as he (Jimmy) was Zep’s main musical director.
See? I can write about Led Zep without being snide once. 😂
September 26th, 2024 at 12:38My point @ 42 – exactly Uwe. Blackmore’s antics at the Cal Jam were very Who like. Hendrix didn’t do his ‘voodoo’ & shamanic ritual burning of his guitar out of anger like a spoilt brat, for want of a better description. The Who in general & Townshend in particular with his songwriting & advice to Ritchie in the early years to ‘keep it simple etc’, were a big influence on Blackmore. Their anarchic & rebellious behaviour looked like something Blackmore would have enjoyed I would think. When I first watched Blackmore doing that at the Cal Jam, I thought of The Who instantly, not Hendrix at all. Didn’t someone place explosives inside Keith Moon’s bass drum way back then. Cheers.
https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-who-the-smothers-brothers#:~:text=After%20miming%20new%20single%20I,A%20huge%20flash.
September 26th, 2024 at 22:20MacGregor @46, yes I think you’re right…some of Ritchie’s antics, and his less than cordial encounters with some rock journos didn’t help his case. That may have put him onto a blacklist of sorts. As for the blues and blues-based rock music, Ritchie was not strong a proponent of it and even described it as “boring”. I agree! Same however sold like hotcakes in the USA and as such, Zeppelin carved out a handsome niche there with it.
Uwe @47, yes “shooting dogs in gravel pits” aptly describes Ritchie’s Strat carnage. If it was occasional, maybe it might have flown, but it became a fixture of his performances and marred them, in my view. As for Zep, I agree, their star would have probably faded in the 80’s and the mythos would most probably have dissipated. Instead, similar to the demise of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain, the death of Bonham had an immortalizing effect which shot the band into the pantheon of rock gods.
Ditto, I restrained myself – no snark factor in my Zep screeds…..this time!
September 27th, 2024 at 02:06DeeperPurps @ 49 – Ian Gillan also as I have mentioned over at the ‘pent up feeling’ story. Both rebels, outspoken with an attitude. Good on them. Cheers.
September 27th, 2024 at 06:31The first time I saw Ritchie atomize a Strat (or something that looked like it) was that Munich Rainbow gig in 1977. Since I was so close up front (I even caught a piece, but then let go of it as everyone went for it because I thought it was getting silly). It was then still exciting, yes, but he was also worked up/adrenalized that night from his Austrian incarceration which added some drama.
I saw the same thing a couple of times more with Rainbow (where a girlfriend of mine reacted bewildered: “Now why is he breaking his guitar?” 😄) and once I think with Purple on the THOBL tour, but it was by then just as much an act as when Paul Stanley with KISS did it (KISS of all bands …, Paul and Gene were both good Jewish boys brought up in the firm belief of the Holocaust generation that you don’t break things on purpose, they would unceremoniously fire opening acts of KISS caught ravaging hotel rooms). I was glad when he stopped doing it altogether. Did he ever do it in Mk V?
September 27th, 2024 at 09:33Yeah, indeed, Blackmore’s role model re smashing guitars must have been good ole Pete judging from that My Generation clip.
I must say I much preferred Jimi’s semi-erotic, Voodoo occult approach. He didn’t smash guitars, he sacrificed them like virgins, nowadays a rare practice.
September 27th, 2024 at 09:55@51 He definitely sacrificed a guitar in Athens, Greece, Sept. 26, 1991 (first ever Purple gig in Greece), and, man, it was LOUD!
September 27th, 2024 at 18:54Hendrix & his take on it was much more of a ritual & conjuring up a part of his heritage in many aspects. The only problem was he didn’t have enough lighter fluid, or whatever his choice of accelerant was. Blackmore definitely over did the ongoing guitar wrecking thing. At least with the Cal Jam performance it did enable Purple to sort of ‘end’ the concert as the ‘headlining’ act. Poor ole ELP, how could you follow that. Keith Emerson gave it a good shot though, as he often did. Cheers.
September 27th, 2024 at 22:14@29
September 28th, 2024 at 12:32Svante, are their other DP related forums? 😊
K
@55: Yes. Mostly on Facebook, but also perfect-purple.com and https://bdeeppurplefanforum.runboard.com/ and probably others.
September 28th, 2024 at 14:04@56
September 28th, 2024 at 17:07Thanks so much Svante 😊
Yeah but on FB there is a bit too much worshiping for my taste! 😄
K
@ 55- Karin I am most disappointed that after such a short sojourn into THS you are already seeking a more sophisticated & intelligent conversation! Not to mention the wit, cryptic observations & even a touch of spiritualism. Oh well, best to test out the waters then & report back. Enjoy. Cheers.
September 28th, 2024 at 21:49It all comes down to personal taste. There is obviously no such thing as the best, even though I think it can be said that RB was very good for DP, the same way Torme was very good for Gillan. Everyone contributed to the success of the band, Blackmore in particular. If that wasn’t the case, the “Blackmore vs…” debates would have stopped a long time ago.
September 29th, 2024 at 05:22@55
September 29th, 2024 at 11:37Aww Mac I just wanted to see other forums if they were anything like this sparkling and joyful brotherhood 😄
(Psst: they were not!)
Is Karin having a bit on the side? We must be vigilant, Herr MacGregor.
If she left that would be a debilitating blow to our female representation here.
September 29th, 2024 at 15:26@61
September 29th, 2024 at 18:47I am certainly not 😄
I just wanted to check out the other sides, but I stay put!
K
@ 62, gee that was quick Karin. Good to see common sense prevailed, welcome back. Cheers.
September 29th, 2024 at 21:46@63
September 30th, 2024 at 06:47Well MacGregor I’ve never been known for throwing away the gems in my life 😊
K
She’s on parole then, increased monitoring and supervision, an electronic leash perhaps?
September 30th, 2024 at 09:00@65
September 30th, 2024 at 11:26Who? Me? 😖
Just some interim measures …
September 30th, 2024 at 14:00Uwe @61……I’m still here!
September 30th, 2024 at 15:41Auntie, you’ve been making yourself rare! I thought you had made off with that Dr Lao of all people. While you were away, we had to make do with Karin. You know how the worst enemy of good is better …
September 30th, 2024 at 22:09Nice young man Uwe @69, every day your dear old aunt opens the door ever so slightly to peek into the yard to see if all the tykes are playing nicely in the HS sandbox! But oh my, how did you know that the kindly but mysterious Dr. Lao has been making housecalls chez moi? Goodness, you are a perceptive one. Dr. Lao has told me about you….he says your name is Grasshopper. I’m still trying to figure out what that means!
September 30th, 2024 at 22:50