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Creative minds work in mysterious ways
It’s Bombay calling again and it says that nothing is new under the moon.
Many years ago there was a Canadian band called Warpig. Their music sounded clearly inspired by Deep Purple and Uriah Heep. They even shared a sound engineer with Purple — Tom Brennand:
It was during a concert by Deep Purple, that keyboardist, Jon Lord, asked if there was anyone in the audience that could rectify the feedback problem during the bands intro. Tom was pushed up and introduced, rectified the problems and was asked to continue on the tour, but due to commitments, that was impossible. Deep Purple, the band, hired him as their sound and recording engineer at every available opportunity. During this period some of the notables with whom tom worked, were Anne Murray, Gordon Lightfoot, Deep Purple, Bee Gee’s, etc.
But check out their track Rock Star — it was recorded in 1970 and thus predates Fireball. Interesting, eh? 😉
Here’s another interesting thing. This is a song called Maria Moite (Maria Quiet) performed by Brazilian jazz singer Astrud Gilberto (of the Girl from Ipanema fame). You might recognize the tune as the jazzy intro the band does for SOTW from time to time, most notably in Montreux 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owOCJTDfJKs
What’s even more interesting, the above recording first appeared on the album Look to the Rainbow Astrud Gilberto did with Gil Evans, which was released back in 1965 or 1966. Very interesting. 😉 😉
I’m pretty sure Jon Lord, being jazz aficionado that he is, was aware of Gil Evans’ work and it is not inconceivable to imagine him jamming around the riff at one of the Purple’s sessions. And perhaps then the guitar player went thinking “Hmm… I wonder how it sounds in fourths”.
The point I want to make here is not about accusations of plagiarism. It is about creative process. All the musicians, writers, artists, creators of any kind stand on the shoulders of giants. They constantly reinterpret what was done previously and do it their own way.
Your hear/read/see (sometimes even smell or taste) and idea and it gets the train of thought rolling. Then you seemingly forget about it. If it’s not your mind every day it does not mean that the brain has stopped working on that idea, subconsciously. Then, many moons or years later, one of those heureka moments happen. The idea was thoroughly processed and surfaces as if it’s your own. Sometimes we remember what exactly got that train of thought rolling in the first place, sometimes we do not. And let’s not get too harsh on those moments when someone does not. That’s how creative process works.
But of course, in the end, credit should be given where credit is due. Whenever possible.
Ah, and by the way, you can buy Astrud’s album or songs from it at your nearest Amazon store:
It’s full of very smooth bossa-nova. And if you like your jazz a little edgier, I can recommend her work with Stan Getz.
Thanks to Andrey Gusenkov and Dan for bringing Warpig to your attention. Also thanks to whoever brought Maria Moite to my attention many years ago.
Unauthorized copying, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing
or “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”.
…see how i used someone elses words as my own.
However, i’ll agree with you that it is “interesting”.
October 11th, 2009 at 08:23Oj both Fireball and Smoke was there for the taking… he, he.
October 11th, 2009 at 09:00I HAVE THE WARPIG ALBUM AND I KNEW FROM MANY YEARS THAT FIREBALL, AS BLACK NIGHT, AS CHILD IN TIME AS BURN AS PICTURE OF HOME AND AS SOME OTHER TRACKS HAS BEEN ‘INSPIRED’ BY OTHER MUSIC OR BANDS…AS LED ZEPPELIN DID FOR ‘WHOLE LOTTA LOVE’ AND MANY OTHER SONGS DEEP PURPLE TOO WERE A STEALER BAND…SAD BUT TRUE…
October 11th, 2009 at 13:16Ah yes….The Great Riffmeister may actually be The Great Riff-Ripoffmeister…..As I stated way back, Right Place Right Time.
Yeah, the SOTW jazzy intro used in the Montreux Jazz Fests is exactly the same. Note for Note. And the overall song structure of “Rock Star” from Warpig is obviously where ‘Fireball’ came from.
Oh the Irony….A band (Warpig) who obviously was influenced by Deep Purple, write a song and put it on their debut album, then a year later, Deep Purple who influenced Warpig, basically Steals a song and rewrites it, but leaving the structure in tact…..Oh the shame……
Cheers
October 11th, 2009 at 16:08so how do these things wrk out? why doesn’t someone sue purple for being ‘inspired’…is that why Blackmore always advises on having a good lawyer by ure side (from the interview archives I have read here)?…it’s a bit sad to see all my fav songs turning out to be ‘very strong inspirations’ 😉
October 11th, 2009 at 23:16Yep, it`s been always like this…
Remember the BURN-riff which was stolen in the first place and then reused – a bit slower though – for MAN ON THE SILVER MOUNTAIN and ALL NIGHT LONG…
October 12th, 2009 at 06:05Yeah, Tracy, you’re so right. DP isn’t about riffs and music, DP is about….. About what Tracy? About what is DP? I don’t deny that musicians “borrow” things, being inspired by others, but that’s the way from the beginning of time – no big deal. Still sound and style and improvisation and ability to incorporate some new things in common musical share is what make some distinguished on another – and in the end everything is matter of taste. My friend who hates DP, and doesn’t like Ritchie (just like you, it’s only that you hate him and overreact every time for unknown reason – maybe you’re his ex girlfriend that he’d left previously, I don’t know)has composed piece of music (he’s very capable guitar player) that reminded me of Son of Alerik, some parts were like stolen, but I knew that guy is out of DP totally, never heard of SOA (DP for him is Smoke and Child). When I mentioned that to him he was all in denial, telling me that I’m boring with DP things – when he listened after that to the song he was astonished, told me that’s impossible… Well, you can’t go far from what’s done, only you can add some of your touch and arrangement, new approach and new tune, and that’s it. All big literature masterpieces were written with same words, and notes are more limiting than words.
October 12th, 2009 at 06:21So tell us what’s DP all about if not about their music, done mostly by that man that you hate so much? Tell us why are you listening – if you listening – to the DP if everything is so bad about Riffmeister. I taught that rock is all about the riff, it’s the main pillar of rock song – so what makes you DP fan? Gillan is good looking to you? His voice is like in 70s? DP tunes are recognizable by….?
Oh the irony, oh the shame…
it is one thing to come up with a catchy jingle— HOWEVER— another to turn it into an iconic riff.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:09@6 Stealing from oneself is one thing, stealing from others is another. 🙂
October 12th, 2009 at 11:24I prefer to call it a ‘compliment’, unlike what Cold Play did by re-recording Satch’s song NOTE FOR NOTE AND PUTTING SOME CHEESY ASS LYRICS TO IT AND CASHED IN MILLIONS BY DOING SO. That’s not plagiarism, it’s copyright infringement “THEFT….” (as I predicted the second I heard about the case, Cold Play did indeed settle out of court for a lort of money to get the case dropped, but admition of guilt took place in the process and I’m sure Joe is happy with that much anyway)
This isn’t anything like that, in fact it has to be one of the oldest facts concerning Purple and where they came up with things, but you can’t take away the FACT that they turned around and influenced so many bands after them that it doesn’t matter how they came up with anything. It is what it is…
October 12th, 2009 at 19:35i would like to see (hear) DP play tunes they like from other bands. they few i heard them do usually turns out better than the original. must be their superior music skills.
October 13th, 2009 at 17:30I would never listen to Deep purple playing others’ songs…it would be waste their time…thay are still able too write their good songs…
October 14th, 2009 at 10:10HZ #7…..
You have been around long enough to know me by now, unless you fall under the same category as the other ‘Blackmore Worshipers’ whom are so blinded by Him and Only Him that you can’t see or read past anything else. I will respond to your entry since you chose to respond to my entry Personally…..
I too LOVE Ritchie. But not in the way you seem to feel I should….Sorry to burst your Narrow Minded Bubble, but I am not a Chick. I am a Dude who has been a Purple and Ritchie fan since 1969. YOU??? I am also a person who give credit due and doesn’t get all foggy and squishy about them which then deters from the Facts of issues regarding Entitled Recognition. You don’t have to tell me how good Ritchie is. I have been a huge fan all along, and to this day enjoy all that he does. I will be in North Carolina, 6 hours from my home to see him play his Lute. I happen to enjoy his present stuff. That’s the beauty of a musician such as he. Even if it isn’t Purple type music, I still enjoy it. Same as with Steve Morse and his prior music before Purple and outside of Purple at the present. When a musician is That Good, you give them more leeway towards stuff you normally would listen too, but to experience them at another level.
That being said, all I stated at #4 was in regards to the SUBJECT of THIS BLOG. The Amazing similarity of these songs and the FACT that they were STOLEN and rehashed and that is that. Sorry, but as much a Purple fan as I am, SOTW was NEVER one of my Favorites….neither was it Ritchie’s. It was a total Fluke and a perfect timing thing that made it what it is, and they have NEVER repeated the popularity of a song since. Too bad the actual Great Riff that Ritchie is given so much credit for is actually one that he blatantly didn’t invent. He just rehashed it, in the Purple way, at the right time and now unfortunately for Purple ever since, is all the world relates to……
Cheers
October 14th, 2009 at 19:53Oh, and one more thing…..since ‘son of Alerik’ for whatever reason keeps coming up…..here is “Dick Pimple” The Turtle Island Shuffle from 1995 in Orlando for you to enjoy. Again, I am a Ritchie Fan, but that doesn’t mean a am not critical….This is much more worthy of listening to than Son of Alerik….but when one is Totally Devoted to TMIB, one can be easily lead to swing in One direction……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBaGkg7X7g
Cheers
October 14th, 2009 at 20:46@ 13
Oh boy, the bad number again.
Like Ritchie I should avoid you like the plague, number 13.
Btw, what on earth are you trying to say……again?
Bless you man, I would NEVER travel that far for BN live.
I did travel a lot of distance to see him in Germany, but I very soon thought that I better had invested in a JON LORD gig around the same time.
That soon it bored me to tears……
Ans with all your constant RB bashing I simply cant understand why you would make such an effort?
Never seen him live with BN?
Mmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhhhh, that might be a good reason.
When is enough?
I saw them 4 times
October 14th, 2009 at 23:40Well Tracy, I’m glad that you aren’t chick. Stolen is not appropriate word, because they are not – borrowed theme, or, in case of SOTW matched by chance, and rearranged yes, done in similar way yes. CG had very nice comment on this – please read it. I don’t feel anything on how you should love Ritchie, I don’t love Ritchie as person but he’s just brilliant musician and master of guitar with great taste and subtlety that I haven’t find in any other guitarist – that’s my admiration for his work, and from the other side his charisma, influence on all HR/HM guitarist and ingenuity are undisputed; very simple. Still because of some similarities in several tunes, amongst whole bunch of others (in DP and Rainbow), and despite of his uniqueness in sound and style, you are saying that “The Great Riffmeister may actually be The Great Riff-Ripoffmeister”. Come on Tracy, give us a break with this kind of phrases. And then you saying I’m fan from 69.,Narrow Minded Bubble, etc. etc… Who cares since when you are fan, it’s just not correct what you quoting about Ritchie as musician, objectively, not from fan point of view. You don’t have to be “Blackmore worshiper” to see that your describing of Ritchie is malicious… Who needs to be Ritchie Worshiper anyway, this is all about music and our favorites; well if you can criticise such original guitarist by speculation you don’t know nothing about it really, about those several songs, don’t proof it by your malicious comment of some Ripoffmeister or I don’t know what…
Cheers to you also.
October 15th, 2009 at 07:36Who’s to say Smoke and Fireball aren’t originals, just because something exists which pre-dates the songs doesn’t mean they heard it.
All the band have been quite frank about Child in Time, Black Night, Burn being ‘stolen’ so why would they not admit to the others if they were genuine originals?
October 15th, 2009 at 22:12To the untrained ear, these examples might appear to be identical at first. Upon further examination, they are, in fact, worlds apart.
Stylistically, Warpig sounds more like Warhorse or Captain Beyond than Deep Purple. We could even compare “Rock Star” to “Paranoid” and still have an equally valid point. The riff to “Smoke on the Water” has only a passing resemblance to “Maria Moite”.
A conclusion cannot be drawn from a couple of notes in common. How many words in this post are in common with the previous ones? How many ideas are the same? The expression, however, is completely different– despite any similarities–intentional or otherwise.
Many of the hits of the 1950’s and early 1960’s relied heavily on the twelve bar blues. Countless songs had not only the same pattern, but the same KEY and even the same CHORDS! Several of Chuck Berry’s compositions sound almost EXACTLY the same. Are we to conclude that if two songs have the same chord sequence that they are “the same” song?
However, when the composer utlizes all of the tools at his or her disposal, even a very strict commonality can be made to be a completely different song. “Bombay Calling” is NOT “Child in Time,” for instance. Play them simultaneously and see what happens.
Music has more than one single trait. It is not merely single notes–but also dynamics, arrangement, timbre, tempo, style, structure, and harmony. A few notes in common on paper do not make a theme “the same” once the final composition is complete.
One particular Brahms motif sounds like “Twinkle-Twinkle Little Star.” On paper, Beethoven’s “An die Freude” looks suspiciously like “Yankee Doodle-Dandy” and in fact was criticized for sounding like “Yankee Doodle” after the Ninth’s début. Another aspect to music not mentioned above–the phrasing–is VERY similar. Hum it and see for yourself.
Let’s compare: “Yankee Doodle went to town / Riding on a pony /Stuck a feather in his cap / and called it macaroni.” This, versus, “Freude! Schöner Götterfunken / Tochter aus Elysium / Wir betreten feuertrunken / Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!” Exacty alike, huh? 😉 Beethoven owes someone some royalties! I don’t think so.
So what if one of the greatest pieces of Western music were inspired by the patriotic American folk song? Would it matter if it were true?
It is just as easy to find moments in common with “Yankee Doodle” and “An die Freude” as it is Blackmore’s iconic riff and the Astrud Gilberto number.
In the end, it’s “Smoke on the Water” you hear on the radio, and is the song that everyone knows.
Hm. I wonder why that is…?
October 16th, 2009 at 02:09pratically any deep purple success has relations with other songs…sad…
October 16th, 2009 at 18:14funny–if DP is ripping off others—who my friends is ripping off DP? too many to list?
October 16th, 2009 at 19:21I dont think you would be so sad if you were the one who made all that killer music.
Practically any?
Thats a huge statement.
How many songs in the DP book have been reported as , ahem, connected?
I could easily say that Sometimes I feel like screaming reminds me alot of Gary Moore in the guitardepartment.
October 16th, 2009 at 22:56Only……..I prefer Gary …..
Why would that be?
Simply this….
I am a MIB fan. I am a Deep Purple fan. I am a musician whom has played Purple and related tunes. I have no malice towards any Purple person, past or present. I am objective, subjective and projective. I look at things through open eyes. I don’t pigeon hole my views. SO, in that since, as I stated OVER AND OVER, My Heroes Ripped off songs and they got a HIT from doing so…….I can live with that….Can YOU????]
At least I admit it…..Ritchie probably would also if asked…
He Hated that song. And Still Does.. ME TOO.
But I love all the rest…
Cheers
October 17th, 2009 at 05:3618….You wonder why that is???????
Because that’s the song they play on the Radio…….
October 17th, 2009 at 18:15Ghost, 13 happens to be My lucky number……
Why do you constantly misrepresent my statements? I am not a RB basher. On the contrary. Here you go one more time. Love his playing, always have. Show one time I have ever used negative remarks to describe TMIB’s playing. You can’t. It doesn’t exist. As I give credit due, I also point out the discredits. I believe I am probably the most senior Purple fan on this site. Not the oldest, just one whom has been a total fan of the boys since 1969. Not trying to pull rank here, just trying to put a lid on your statement regarding my being a RB Basher. The only Bashing I do is regarding Your constant Bashing of present Purple and Steve Morse….Now that is accurate and you have to admit that.
I have seen BN only one time and enjoyed it, and look forward to seeing them again on November 1st. Should be a great show. They are playing the day after Halloween and on their site, they are promoting folks to dress for the occasion….Should be a blast. I’ll let you know how many songs they rip off during this show…..LOL..
Cheers
October 17th, 2009 at 18:31Dear Tracy
Have the bubbles of your hot tub gone to your old but amusing brain?
It was ME, not Ghost that wrote that post.
You not only try to bash me but amongst others JLT as well.
The most senior on this site?
October 17th, 2009 at 18:50What does it matter?
Well, you are indeed the most evil looking one, hehehe
Sorry Ghost for the Typo…please forgive me as I meant to be ‘disturbing the Priest’..
I didn’t say my time mattered other than using it to show how long I have been a Blackmore Fan. As for your JLT issue….I will also clarify that one. I’ll say this again….Love JLT’s Voice when HE is SINGING. That’s his job and does it well. His Poofyness on stage and his words outside of his singing are what I criticize. Again, my critique is always specific, NOT GENERAL. I’m a big fan of JLT’s Music. That’s it though. I just don’t care for his persona, and his being a Deep Purple leach. It isn’t a big deal. I don’t have to hang out with him and listen to his BS. I just push play and listen to his singing voice and that is a good thing..
Cheers
October 17th, 2009 at 21:22I wonder……
Maybe it is time for the DPAS 2?
Dick Pimple Appreciation Society……
I m afraid you will be really serious on that one……
October 17th, 2009 at 21:43I just found 4 DIFFERENT youtubes promoting SOA.
Only one gives us your Dick Pimple Bar Break Blues.
SOA attracts a lot of comments, the other none…..
October 17th, 2009 at 22:12Tracy @24 says “one who has been a TOTAL FAN of the boys since since 1969.” I’ve been only since ’73, but consider myself a total fan. Anyway……not enough total fans IMO!
October 18th, 2009 at 01:25Cheers
I wish I was BORN in 69, such a fine year!!!!
October 18th, 2009 at 21:28I wasn’t born in ’69, but I was 13 at the time…..weird days for sure. Great Music though. Still remember hearing HUSH for the first time……everything changed after that….
Cheers
October 21st, 2009 at 15:24HUSH?
Maybe that was a sign?
October 21st, 2009 at 22:15It is now…..’I thought I heard you calling my name’…..
October 25th, 2009 at 16:22I dont want to taste your poison.
October 25th, 2009 at 18:32There is no doubt that a lot of Ritchies riffs were very “influenced” (as were a lot of Jimmy Pages)but unlike Jimmy he arranged them differently and normally those influences were from outside the hard rock structure of music. As Tracy and others have stated here, most artists have been involved in this subconsciously or otherwise… At least Ritchie admits freely that he has done this in an almost flippant manner therefore we should accept this as gospel. Converesly he has been blatantly ripped 100’s of times by the hard rock bands that followed in Purple’s huge musical wake.
October 27th, 2009 at 06:36Good Point Jeffs…..
October 27th, 2009 at 15:45Not sure if any of u remember a Blackmore interview to Hit Parader or one of those other rock magazines around 1985. Somebody asked him where do you get some of your ideas and he said to the interviewer JUST STEAL. NOW with that in mind take a long listen to the song TOO MUCH by a fellow named ELVIS PRESLEY better known as the KING OF ROCK AND ROLL. I think you will recognize that part of that song became a Deep Purple Mark One Classic. Take a RIFF change the lyrics around a little, add a little back beat, change the tempo a tad and walla there you have it head to the studio for some cool recording and press it to vinyl
October 30th, 2009 at 06:43@ 37
Tried those 2 tracks to find out.
I m lost
Can you help me out here?
Which MK 1 are you referring to……?
Sorry, did not listen all the way through…..
November 1st, 2009 at 22:17Purple Priest listen to the lead guitar solo on TOO MUCH by ELVIS then you will recognize what Ritchie meant by just steal
November 19th, 2009 at 07:24Hi BS
Sorry, cant make out of that solo which song by Mark 1 you are trying to refer too
November 20th, 2009 at 16:06There’s a bit of ‘Hush’ in The Beatles’ ‘A Day In The Life’.
October 17th, 2013 at 08:02